1993 Stanley Cup flashback: 10th straight OT win for Habs in Game 4

This year marks the 20th anniversary of the Canadiens’ last Stanley Cup championship.

The Canadiens and Los Angeles Kings met in Game 4 of the 1993 Stanley Cup final on June 7, 1993 with the Canadiens winning 3-2 in overtime on John LeClair’s goal, moving within one victory of their 24th Cup championship.

Below are the columns by Michael Farber and Red Fisher that were published in The Gazette following Game 4.

(Gazette file photo/Allen McInnis)

It’s gotta be magic!

PUBLISHED IN THE GAZETTE ON JUNE 8, 1993

RED FISHER
THE GAZETTE

INGLEWOOD, Calif. – It is one game away from what once was thought to be an impossible dream, so now Guy Carbonneau sits there, shaking his head.

“Unbelievable. I’m numb,” he said in the moments after this 3-2 overtime victory by the Canadiens, which gives them a 3-1 lead in their best-of-seven series with the Los Angeles Kings.

“I don’t know what to think, whether to laugh, be serious or to be happy. Happy, I guess, because we’re leading the series 3-1 and we’re going home. Unbelievable, though.”

What was unbelievable, perhaps, was that for the second consecutive game, John LeClair scored the winner, this time 14:37 into the overtime.

Unbelievable, because for the first 25 minutes of this pivotal game, the Canadiens swept into a 2-0 lead on goals by Kirk Muller and Vincent Damphousse. They were in control. They set the tempo. They had two, but could have had four – and then the wheels almost fell off.

The air started to go out of the balloon a couple of seconds after a Canadiens giveaway – allowing Mike Donnelly to score. That’s when the Kings started taking over in what ended as a desperate second period when Marty McSorley tied the score with only five seconds remaining.

“I’m sitting here not really knowing what to say,” said Carbonneau, “but what I do know is that Patrick (Roy) came into the dressing room after the second period and said that was the last goal he was giving up.

“He kept his promise.”

So did LeClair, who had come into the room after the third period and boomed in his hillbilly twang:

“Let’s go guys. I’ve got lots left.”

Lots – even though many of his colleagues appeared to be tiring.

Enough to get the winner, which came after he pounced on a shot that had gone wide, shrugged off several restraining bodies beside Kelly Hrudey, who had fallen out of position, and tucked it beyond defenceman Darryl Sydor.

“What can you say about that guy,” said Carbonneau. “He’s finally learning how good he can be. He’s finally learning how to get things done with his size. He said he had lots left. We need guys that size to do the job for us – with their size.”

The Canadiens did it the hard way again – a remarkable 10th victory in 11 overtime games after losing the first one to the Quebec Nordiques. What they also did was go into the game as well- prepared as any team can be.

Twelve minutes into it, the Canadiens had an 8-3 margin in shots. A minute later, they had tested Hrudey four more times.

It’s called turning it on, but is there a prettier play than the one choreographed by Muller for the period’s only goal?

There he is, facing off in the circle to Hrudey’s right. Jari Kurri, who plays that position largely as an afterthought, faced him. The puck is dropped, Muller slips it through Kurri’s legs and, in one motion, lashes a shot beyond Hrudey.

The Canadiens could have had at least two more. Once, Carbonneau struck the post on a two-on-one with Ed Ronan. Brian Bellows was set up delightfully by Muller – and missed the pass. Carbonneau sweeps in on Hrudey, is stopped, and can’t get his stick to the short rebound.

Games have been won with the opportunities the Canadiens, as a team, frittered away. Or, more precisely, the chances they couldn’t bury because of Hrudey’s excellence.

Mathieu Schneider is caught laying on an elbow late in the period. Two minutes later, he’s out of the box and racing in on Hrudey. He’s stopped.

Bottom line: it may not be the best period the Canadiens have played in the playoffs, but it was up there with the best.

The Kings?

The best they had to offer among their six shots were two by Tomas Sandstrom, but Roy took both away – particularly the rebound.

Skating is what the Canadiens were all about. Team Whoosh! They dictated the pace, and for much of the period it was simply too much for the Kings.

“If we win this one,” Mike Keane had said earlier in the day, “we’re in a great position. If we don’t, it’s anybody’s ball game.”

Keane had that right.

Roy reigns as best player of the second season

PUBLISHED IN THE GAZETTE ON JUNE 8, 1993

MICHAEL FARBER
THE GAZETTE

INGLEWOOD, Calif. – This had become Hockey Morning in Canada a good 20 minutes earlier and there stood Patrick Roy. He had a mask, but he didn’t have a cigarette.

He doesn’t smoke. The Kings do. This was Stanley Cup overtime, that extra special place where the Canadiens have lived for the past seven weeks, but it was Los Angeles that was owning the extra time, throwing everything at Roy.

The Kings looked fresh. The Canadiens were like a punch-drunk fighter, searching out the clinches, hanging on, doing everything they could to fend off Kings. This was Rocky in Wayne’s World, a tired team trying desperately not to get outclassed, and the only thing that was keeping the Canadiens alive was their goaltender.

“You know, I feel good in overtime,” Roy said later. “I felt perfect. I just had to make myself tough to beat. You just don’t want to give up a soft goal.

“My concentration came easy, especially in the third period and the overtime. I knew it would be a difference between 2-2 and 3-1.”

John LeClair made sure the Canadiens are one win away from the Stanley Cup when he scored a 16-incher at 14:37 of overtime. Long John was Short John again, and his two game-winners put end-to-end would still be a gimme. But Montreal surely would have been back at its beachfront hotel if it weren’t for Roy. He was Jacques Plante, Ken Dryden and Terry Sawchuck rolled into one.

The next person he becomes is Conn Smythe.

Roy has been the best player in the post-season just as he was in 1986 when, as a rookie, he led Montreal to its last Stanley Cup. He is one Wednesday from a not-so-instant replay but in the overtime period, he surely turned the clock back to 1986 when he survived about a 3,465 shot overtime against the New York Rangers. Roy was called to stop a mere 10 in almost a quarter of an hour against Los Angeles, but he was just as sharp.

When asked to compare the two, Roy said, “It’s tough to compare this to 1986. We played so few overtime games then, and now we have one almost every night. But I don’t live in the past. I only go on to the next game.”

Good idea. Why compare a Van Gogh to a Picasso.

A playoff masterpiece is a playoff masterpiece.

“Patrick Roy is the greatest goaltender in the world,” said Jacques Demers. “Kelly Hrudey (in the Kings nets) was great, battling, not giving an inch, but the Patrick Roy who came tonight was the Patrick Roy who is best in the game.”

Roy made a reflex save on Jari Kurri in the overtime, a remarkable reaction as Kurri batted the puck in midair off Roy’s glove. Of course, he couldn’t stop what he couldn’t see but then Roy didn’t have to. His goalpost did it for him.

Roy didn’t have a clue on Jimmy Carson’s shot from the faceoff in overtime. Carson was the bounciest player on the ice, Kings coach Barry Melrose having used him as sparingly as he uses the barber. That made Carson the most dangerous. He tried a cute play off a faceoff in the Montreal zone – Kirk Muller had scored on the same play in the first period when he took a faceoff through Jari Kurri’s legs and shot it past Hrudey – and Carson got some serious stick on it. Clang. Roy still talks to his posts, and once again the post talked back.

“I wasn’t thinking about overtime,” Roy said. “I don’t think our team was thinking about it either, not in a conscious way. But we know that when the score is tied and there are 10 minutes left in the third period, we’re not going to take many chances. If we have a good chance, we’re going to take it and go. But we’re willing to go into the overtime. We’re really positive about it.”

Why not. The streak of overtime victories has reached 10 and the legend grows faster than the record for Team Time and a Half because now we’re into exponents as well as opponents. The Canadiens now have won their past three games in overtime over the doubting Kings, the first final since Montreal-Toronto in 1951 to have a string of three overtime games. This was a little more lingering death than sudden death, but the Canadiens don’t ask how long, they ask how much.

LeClair scored on a botched two-on-one on a play that should have been well past your bed time. But you probably stayed up and so did Roy, challenging the Kings to beat him. They couldn’t when it counted.

This was no rout, but you better believe they are plotting a route on St. Catherine St. this morning.

Twilight zone; Canadiens’ mastery in overtime can’t be explained statistically

PUBLISHED IN THE GAZETTE ON JUNE 8, 1993

MICHAEL FARBER
THE GAZETTE

INGLEWOOD, Calif. – We take you now to the laboratory of Advanced Statistical Hockey Research, also known as Room 711 at the Westin LAX. This could be any lab in North America (except for the telltale crusts of the room service club sandwich on the table near the window), but here yesterday afternoon one of the most significant experiments in recent sporting history occurred.

Some background, professor.

We men of science could no longer buy the layman’s “ghosts” or a quark named “Patrick Roy” or “experience” or “patience” or the “long bench” (how long? 30 metres?) to explain an apparent statistical anomaly.

So we applied the empirical method.

The implements: one 25-cent piece (American, 1980), one bed (king- size, four pillows), one thumb (right).

The methodology: flip the coin and let it land on the bed.

The data: heads, heads, tails, heads, tails, tails …

For complete results, you will have to wait for the parade. But to summarize: after 100 flips of the coin, there were 52 tails and 48 heads. More significantly, the longest streaks by these evenly matched sides were seven (heads) and five (tails).

So heading into Game 5 of the Stanley Cup final last night, the only explanation for the Canadiens’ record streak of nine overtime wins was: beats the hell out of us.

The odds against nine straight overtime wins are 1 in 1,024, and you shouldn’t take the word of Advanced Statistical Hockey Research because we were once nearly fired by a shoe store for an inability to make change. No. Like other scientists, we welcomed verification.

“Now let me get this straight,” said Prof. Jan DeLeeuw, the director of the statistics program at UCLA. “Hockey has three periods each of 20 minutes, which actually takes much longer than 60 minutes to complete. And if there is a draw after 60 minutes, they play overtime?”

Right.

“Well, you must assume as you start overtime the chances of each team to win are equally good,” DeLeeuw said, “because that’s why you need overtime in the first place.”

Of course. Sometimes we scientists have lost sight of that fact because Roy has made every big save for the Canadiens for seven weeks and Montreal plays with a nice mixture of verve and composure in sudden death. Still, when the streak of overtimes started against Quebec in Game 3, the scientific community favored the Nordiques because 1) they had won the first game in OT and 2) if OT is a scoring lottery, Quebec seemed to have more balls in the drum.

“So if overtime is the equivalent of a fair coin toss,” continued DeLeeuw and then he went off on binomial distribution, which might be elementary to him but hasn’t been used as regularly in this lab as, say, Spectravision.

The prof came up with the probability of the streak as .00098, roughly one in a thousand.

Thanks, professor. You’re one in a million for taking time to help. Do you happen to know any of the Los Angeles Kings?

“One.”

The player wears .00099.

But to verify his figures, to guard against any Left Coast numerical bias, we checked with the math department at McGill University because for all we know, .00098 could be .00120 Canadian.

Prof. V. Seshadri, a Canadiens fan since 1962, obliged.

“Just a simple binomial formula,” Seshadri explained. Right. Simple to DeLeeuw. “You take 1/2 to the power of 10 …

“Ah, my calculator isn’t working.”

This is the Stanley Cup final, Professor. You’ve got to check out your equipment.

That’s what Marty McSorley, Ph.D. always says.

Now we know these findings are controversial. The ghost mob has its backers, and Dave Taylor of the Kings already is wondering.

“Our series really doesn’t apply a lot to what they’ve done in overtime,” he said. “We haven’t had good opportunities the other way to score. The Canadiens have just taken the puck into our zone and put it in the first time. Two first-minute goals. But it is crazy the way the whole thing worked out.”

The craziness continued., The Canadiens won 3-2 in overtime in Game 4 last night. The law of averages has been repealed.

“You know, I’ve been watching the games, and they have been thrilling,” Seshadri said. “The finals are different ballgames from what happens in the rest of the year. Both teams are evenly matched, and this is blood.

“Can you get me a ticket?”

Now we know these findings are controversial. The ghost mob has its backers, and Dave Taylor of the Kings already is questioning the methodology.

“Our series really doesn’t apply a lot to what they’ve done in overtime,” he said. “We haven’t had good opportunities the other way to score. The Canadiens have just taken the puck into our zone and put it in the first time. Two first-minute goals. But it is crazy the way the whole thing worked out.”

Maybe. But as they say around campus, nine heads are better than one.

314 Comments

  1. Sportfan says:

    So basically its like this, Habs were better than Boston, but not Ottawa, Penguins were better than Ottawa, but not Boston. Very odd indeed.

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  2. Sportfan says:

    Thanks for nothing Pittsburgh….

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  3. Dunboyne Mike says:

    Was at NHL.com, read an article about Marchand.
    I reckon 80% of the comments posted after expressed love for Marchand.

    I have no problem recognising the guy’s speed and talent and competitiveness and acknowledging his considerable value to the Bruins. (And he didn’t go to sleep half-way through the season like Lucic and Horton et al).

    But I would hate to see him in a Habs jersey.

    Not so posters at nhl.com, the majority of whom would take him in a heart beat. Including Canucks fans. MANY people saying he’s just dirty enough without “crossing the line”. Many people very upset if anyone mentions Marchand and Cooke in the same post.

    Am I wrong?

    How about a poll question? Stu?

    • Ktowner says:

      Marchand in a Habs jersey? No!!!!! Don’t get me wrong I think he has a some talent but I just can’t get past his dive-whine-taunt antics.

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        You and me both.
        But I remain amazed that so many fans have no problem with any of that. Including Canucks fans ffs!
        Does it say something about this generation of hockey fan? Or is it possible it has more to do with nhl.com?…

    • Sportfan says:

      I’m not comparing them at all but Lapierre was a pest in his own way and it bugged a lot of people here so Marchand wouldn’t do any better either.

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  4. thebonscott says:

    edm offloads hemsky and horcoff, they have 26 mill cap room, good place to offload gorges, i like him but 4 million is 2 much for
    that player
    GET BIGGER, GET TOUGHER, GET EVEN.

  5. Rad says:

    Ryan Kennedy with a piece on Jonathan Diaby. The kid is already at 250 lbs. I say we draft this man child.

    http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/52210-JonathanIsmael-Diaby.html

  6. jimmy shaker says:

    Jarret Stoll and Matt Greene for Moen and Gorges.

    Get on it MB (make a good rapport with lombardi and than swoop in for Bernier a week or so later)

    Shaker

  7. Steeltown Hab says:

    I know Bickell will get overpaid, not because he’s not worth the hype or anything like that, simply every intriguing “name” out there at UFA will get overpaid.

    Did we overpay for Prust at 2.5M I sure as hell thought so, but he plays in a way you like, and the 2.5 isn’t as bad, add in Bickell for 3.5 – 4 years (DD Deal). I doubt we’ll be talking about it in the same sense as all the other bad contracts MTL has had.

    ———————————

    Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Emelin – @J_Perez22

    • Sportfan says:

      If we signed him for that amount, people would whine and complaining. Then when the season starts if he plays the same way he did in Chicago people will fall in love with him, if he doesn’t then people will be all over him for the contract. Honestly I doubt he’d flop, he’s a player who works hard. Hopefully we’ll be the lucky team to land him.

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  8. 24 Cups says:

    Kaspars Daugavins is in for Gregory Campbell tonight. The bottom two lines have been shuffled slightly; Chris Kelly will center Paille and Thornton, Rich Peverley will center Daugavins and Seguin.

    Assuming anybody cares!

  9. Propwash says:

    Stars get Gonchar for a 6th round conditional pick, is that even allowed seeing the playoffs are still going on?

    ____________________
    DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!

  10. Detritus says:

    For all those pining for us to sign Bickel at any cost, ask yourself how much you would like to have Joel Ward @ 3m/year right now? I’m sure he could be had for a 3rd rounder from Washington if any team had the least bit of interest in taking on such a ridiculous salary.

    While Bickel is playing great, so did Joel Ward… believing that a player suddenly learns how to score once the playoffs hit is a bit misleading. It’s possible that playoff greatness carry’s over (Franson?) but rare.

  11. JohnBellyful says:

    I’ve often wondered about this, how birds reproduce. (Wondered, not obsessed about it.)
    Guess what: They don’t have penises! Honest!

    http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/06/07/why_do_birds_not_have_penises_researchers_look_to_their_genes.html

    Well, that might be true for most birds but I’m pretty sure penguins have a prick, and his number’s 24.

  12. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …are these ’93 Flashbacks going to be run until October ?

    …if they are, I better plan My upcoming vacation with My Kids to the South Pacific to have no hotels with internet :)

    • CharlieHodgeFan says:

      Man, it’s annoying. I was there, I mean, I was alive and able to watch TV…I don’t need the history lesson of what it was like to watch a good team.

      I missed the last two games – my daughter was born premature and in danger. I didn’t leave the hospital for days – once she was safe, I came home for a few hours and collapsed exhausted in the living room by the open open window. Heard a mighty roar of joy, and thought ‘Huh. The Habs won the Cup. Or maybe they heard about my kid.”

      It was the Cup. I’d like to see another sometime soon, before the grandchildren.

    • JohnBellyful says:

      Good grief, they’ve started running flashbacks of HIO commentary — from the preseason:

      Bugs
      September 28, 2010 at 1:13 am

      Can’t disagree. Often goes sprawlin. At least he goes sprawlin TRYIN and not sprawlin loafin.

      Showed some vision, Had goals right on his stick! Gaah!

      But I ain’t embarrassed. Oh, he’s got the moves. Got it all. Except the goshdang confidence!

      La rage de vaincre. L’instinct du tueur. La férocité insouçiante. Once Gomie and Gio drive those into’m, watch the hell out. All I gotta say.

      Poolio can do it.

      Reprovingly reproof-proof, here sits

      L.Bugs Potter, esq. Assistant Head Honcho to what goes down in Chinatown, Big Cheese at Flannelcorp Media, and Lead Copy-boy at Habsbros Hard Data Factory: http://habsbros.blogspot.com
      Reply

      TomNickle
      September 28, 2010 at 1:09 am

      At least he finally put somebody in an opposite colour shirt on their behind tonite. Best hit of the pre-season by any Hab so far too

      Reply

      mike g
      September 28, 2010 at 1:06 am

      New nickname for Pouliot: The Zamboni.

      Man, when is that guy gonna stop falling all over the ice?
      It’s become embarrassing for the fans. Imagine how he feels.

      Tabarnack, aweye Benoit!

  13. SmartDog says:

    Cheer up comrades!
    I have faith in Bergevin. I really do!
    (cue music)
    Take my advice, we don’t need Weiss!
    We’ll still be alright if we don’t pick up Streit,
    Next year won’t be scary, even without Perry,
    We can give it a go, even without Ryan Clowe,
    And most of all…
    Don’t have a pickle, if we don’t land Bickell!

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  14. habstrinifan says:

    I am amazed and a little dismayed by the negative ‘out of the question’ response to going after Bickell in a big way.

    What would those posterd do? Have the HABS stand on the sideline because there is no guarantee that Bickell is for real.

    Havent we done enough of that. And then mistakenly gone after supposed veterans, with supposedly a proven track record.

    Gomez; Gionta; Cammallieri; Kaberle; Cole. etc.

    If someone comes up to you and say they have a player who’s big and talented and who has honed and developed his game from his draft year by spending time in the minors etc and now is making himself heard on a solid team.. are you interested?

    You have to say YES. You have to get your staff togetehr.. the scouts and the coaches and the people who can evaluate the intangibles. You have to get your ears listening to the buzz surrounding possible interest and offers for Bickell and players like him. And you HAVE to make a serious decision. And give it a try.

    Is Bickell anymore a risk than going into next season with Pacioretty and DD and no linemate to get the best out of them .. so that in 2 years you are doing contemplating moving Pacioretty.

    Sometimes you have to put your GM instinct out there and make a move.

  15. frontenac1 says:

    Over and out amigos. There’s dead wildlife hanging on the walls and Vodka shots are happening.Adios!

  16. chilli says:

    Demers: “They have 23 Cups,” he said. “When I die, this franchise probably will have 50.”

    Oh, how wrong he was….

    Tre

  17. 24 Cups says:

    “3) Gorges: The heart of a lion, yet on a true Cup contender a 4-5 swing man with little offensive abilities. He tries to play big at 6’1″-203, yet is targeted by other teams as one of the few that will engage on the Habs back end.”

    Maritime Ron – You’re kidding us right? Gorges brings little in the way of a physical presence. That’s one of his main problems. He always loses more battles than he ever wins.

    • twilighthours says:

      Disagree that he loses more battles than wins. He wasn’t great this year but historically he has been very effective in regaining the puck and moving it forward.

      • 24 Cups says:

        There is the legend and there’s the truth of the matter.

        I expect Gorges to bounce back next season. But even before last year, if you watched closely, he lost quite a few battles in front of the net, behind it and in the corners.

        Just one fan’s opinion.

        • Hobie Hansen says:

          Make that two fans opinions. Two of Diaz, Gorges and Bouillon have to go.

          Subban, Markov, Tinordi and Emelin should makeup the top four IMO. Personally, contracts aside, Id probably keep Diaz and sign a 3rd big man too play with him.

          Markov moves on after the season and Beaulieu takes his place.

          That way you have three hard hitting, crease clearing and physical defenders and 3 puck moving, PP, offensive defenders.

        • ebk says:

          and another ones.

    • Maritime Ron says:

      Good day 24 Cups

      NO, I am not kidding you.
      Gorges was left alone this year with zero back end covering his back.
      There is a reason he has an “A” on his chest and it has nothing to do with his media presence.

      Josh is a character guy and was wrongly slotted this year.
      As mentioned, he was also targeted by other teams because he had heart and tried to play strong.

      Did you see how many times he was run this year and NO ONE stuck up for him.
      Did you notice how many times he WANTED the puck when it was dumped in, and didn’t take the easy route out and avoid a hit?

      How many other Habs Dmen played that way?
      Tell me.

      Do you know if he played hurt this year?
      The guys in the room know what Gorges is all about.
      Don’t blame him for being wrong slotted and playing his guts out!

      • 24 Cups says:

        Ron – That sounds a lot like the legend that Mike Boone helped develop on this site. And I totally respect MB and Gorges.

        Let’s just agree to disagree.

        I wish Josh Gorges all the best moving forward. Hopefully, his actions on the ice will equal his comments off it.

  18. frontenac1 says:

    Out there? I’m in the middle of nowhere amigo, and I’m starting to like it.

  19. frontenac1 says:

    I’m somewhere in Eastern Ontario not far from the Quebec border drinking Guinness in an old hotel bar with a guy named Stinky. Weird stuff amigos.

  20. frontenac1 says:

    Hey boing! I said that? I’m convinced the Truth is never told between the 9 to 5 hours amigo. Saludos!

    • boing007 says:

      That’s right, you said that. Two months ago. I was bored as you and most of the rest of us were on that day and when I saw your comment I laughed out loud. After that, I started copying and pasting gems from yourself, Danno and others over the past two months. Saved them on three separate partitions with MS Wordpad. Don’t want to lose them.

      Richard R

  21. Sportfan says:

    To the Bickell people out there he’s going to cost so much and every team will want him unless and and MB are close it might be hard to get him…

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    • Habfan17 says:

      I agree some teams may offer him too much so I do hope that MB can convince him that Montreal would be a great fit for him. One good thing, there are some teams that may want him, but already don’t have the cap room.

      Habfan17

    • habstrinifan says:

      But MB has gotta make a try with a first offer that rattles his brain a bit. Gotta try.

      • GrimJim says:

        But isn’t that the catch-22… If his value is 3-4 mil and that is what everyone else is offering, a “rattles his brain” offer would be 4-5 mil and then the fan base is all over MB for over-paying. Who does Bickell pick if Chicago and Mtl both offer 4 mil? Or LA and Mtl? or Pitt and Mtl?

        • habstrinifan says:

          MB should have his ‘feelers’ out and get all the ‘buzz’ about interest etc and also the buzz about comparable UFA’s and then make a ‘real offer’. I made a post earlier which detailed the ancilliary considerations which could accompany a ‘significant offer’ which ensures that Bickell at least listens.

          We cant just sit on the sideline.

  22. boing007 says:

    Ever since this post by Frontenac on trade deadline day I have been copying and pasting hundreds of humourous posts. Thanks for all the chuckles and laughs people. Keep up the good work.

    frontenac1
    April 3, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    At the Saloon with the Lads watching this trade centre. The Barkeep said if you had a drink for every trade today, you could still legally drive home.

    Richard R

    • Habfan10912 says:

      He’s a gem for sure. :)

      • habstrinifan says:

        Hey Habfan10912. Did you catch any of tsn690 friday scrum. I caught just enough to know that they shared viewpoint that the goalie coach change is a ‘lets get outta our comfort zone and let’s get better’ challenge to Price.. a wake-up call that it wont be much hand holding next season. (maybe even got the idea from you)

        And it’s a good change in approach.

  23. commandant says:

    Was game 4 the “wink” game on Sandstrom, or was that game 3?

    Go Habs Go!
    Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  24. Maritime Ron says:

    While we discuss about getting ‘Stronger-Tougher-Bigger’ up front, the HUGE concern from here is how our group of Dmen will look when the season starts in early October.

    Emelin will be out until at least December – how he will come back, or how long it will take to get into previous form is an unknown at this point in time, so exactly what do we have to start the season?

    1) PK: Elite NHL Dman with every tool in the box.

    After that, a 2-7 Dman Unit which is an immense concern:

    2) Markov: Soon to be 35 years old with wonky knees and little to zero physical presence. Good and smart puck mover.

    3) Gorges: The heart of a lion, yet on a true Cup contender a 4-5 swing man with little offensive abilities. He tries to play big at 6’1″-203, yet is targeted by other teams as one of the few that will engage on the Habs back end.

    4) Diaz: “Pretty” and half decent offensively, yet small and soft at 5’11”-197. A total of 82 games of NHL experience.

    5) Bouillon: Another heart of a lion, but soon to be 38 and at 5’8-197 brings zero fear to any opposing NHL forward. On a Cup contending team, he is a 6th Dman if the team incurs multiple injuries.

    6-7) Tinordi and Beaulieu….

    And then the ‘What if’ of further injuries that will surely transpire?
    Hamilton? Nothing there.

    Bergevin and gang have their work cut out for them.
    If we don’t deal with the issues on our back end – and that may mean trading youth for youth, or taking on salary/cap hit with the new trade rules, we will be picking a high draft choice in summer 2014. Very high!

    • commandant says:

      Good analysis

      A physical defensive D is absolutely needed…. but he also needs to be a stop gap til Tinordi, Beaulieu and others are ready. Its a tough area to navigate in a year where the number of Tough Physical D in free agency is low.

      Go Habs Go!
      Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
      http://lastwordonsports.com/

      • Maritime Ron says:

        Comm.
        There is always a “youth to youth’ trade option as you well know (Schenn-JVR example…) or taking on some Salary/Cap Hit.
        From here, and trying to diagnose how we can get there without the usual Diaz-Weber-Moen-DD nonsense, Here’s just wondering how Bergevin can navigate that?

        • johnnylarue says:

          The problem with a “youth to youth” trade in this instance is that tough-as-nails D-first defensemen don’t typically mature as quickly as the offensive D-men we have available. Tinordi being a case in point.

          I think there’s a certain amount of seasoning involved in the type of reliable, physical D-man we’re looking for–be it a stop-gap measure or a long-term solution. So we’re really looking at a “youth-to-experience” trade, unfortunately. (Unfortunate mainly because veterans typically earn more than kids.)

          • Maritime Ron says:

            Good points Johnny…and that’s why my Dream UFA acquisition is Rob Scuderi – and I would overpay a lot for a guy like that in a heart beat!

            A veteran- a Mentor- a guy with 2 Cup rings from Pitt and LA-and from what I heard, a great character and room guy…and he can handle Top 4 minutes for years to come along with top PK minutes.

            Imagine for a moment him and PK as 1-2. Markov/Diaz and Gorges as 3-4..or trade Markov/Diaz to an Edmonton for some good assets.
            Then, that also gives us trade opportunities mentioned above because he cost no assets to acquire and moves everyone down in the depth chart.

            How good would he be teaching Tinordi-Beaulieu-Ellis and the rest about being a pro – a Cup winning pro, and just maybe PK could pick up a few hints…

        • commandant says:

          You are right, trades are the option. However we have to give to get, and this is where the road becomes very tricky for Bergevin (as you mentioned).

          Go Habs Go!
          Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
          http://lastwordonsports.com/

          • Maritime Ron says:

            Comm
            Very tricky indeed, and you have to have assets and depth to make trades – See LA Lombardi or Pitt as just a few examples.

            Perhaps we are a few years away because of the lack of depth/assets – and sometimes I wish we were a bit of Philly Holmgren, yet we’ll see what Bergy is all about in the next 2-3 years.
            He didn’t exactly inherit an ideal situation concerning Cap or playoff made team according to the new My NHL.

    • jols101 says:

      Would Fistric be a good fill-in until Emelin returns and/or Tinordi and Beaulieu are ready for full time duty? (I don’t think either are that far away from full time NHL duty. Lots depends on how hard they hit the gym this off season.)

  25. Bill says:

    I can’t handle one more dumb-ass trade proposal or plan to sign Bickell and Clarkson (who are the most overrated players on HIO since Zenon Konopka btw) which will absolutely not happen.

    Ok, I probably can take it, and I will, just had to vent a little. Some very delusional thinking going on here again.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Thank you Bill. As I like Clarkson and admire his grit he is not a star player in this league. Same could be said for Bickell. Nice solid players? Yes. Game changers? Nope. Worth more than 3 million per season. For someone they will be but not for me.

      • boing007 says:

        Bickell has been a game changer so far during the Blackhawks Stanley Cup run. N’est-ce pas? Identifying and adding other pieces to the puzzle-like Prust-would surely help the Canadiens become a more complete, highly competitive team.

        Richard R

        • Habfan17 says:

          The way he is going, he may force the Black Hawks to trade another player so they can re-sign him .

          Habfan17

          • johnnylarue says:

            Alight, Bickell is playing is great. No argument. But will he be a game-changer from now on, or is he just hitting a hot streak? The fact that he’s big, reasonably fast and suddenly scoring goals doesn’t make him money in the bank.

            I’m with everyone else who expects Clowe, Clarkson and Bickell to be grossly overpaid in the off-season, and while I’d gladly have any of them as a Hab, I highly doubt Bergevin will get involved in a bidding war and I don’t blame him.

          • Habfan17 says:

            @ johnnylarue
            I don’t think Beregevin will get in a bidding war either, I do think he will make a pitch though. Too many GM;s give huge contacts based on one good season or playoff and then get burned. Theodore was one the Habs screwed up.

            Habfan17

    • SmartDog says:

      C’mon Bill. Just one more. Bickell for Letang! Wait a minute… is one of those guys with us yet?

      ————————————-
      Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • ont fan says:

      The trades and free agent signings are ridiculous. We aren’t going to get the Bickell, Clarkson, Malkin type players. When i read that stuff I want to take the summer away from here.

  26. Habfan10912 says:

    Maybe the Pen’s should get another top draft pick this year, eh?

  27. Habfan17 says:

    Let’s say the plan in Pittsburgh was to take a run at the cup this season knowing that they can’t afford to sign Malkin with Crosby under contract and having Letang etc. Part two of the plan was to restock the cupboards that were depleted trading for Morrow, Iginla, Jokinen and Murray by trading one of Crosby or Malkin

    Now let’s say that they have decided due to the concussions and how well they did with Crosby out, that he is the player they want to trade. Since the Habs were his favourite team growing up, would you trade Plekanec, Gorges, Kristo, Dietz, and next years first round pick to get Crosby?

    Habfan17

    • Habfan10912 says:

      I would. Chances are the 1st round pick will be a mid to late pick and none of the players could not be replaced with 2nd and 3rd round picks so there is a huge upside for Montreal. If I’m the Pens I don’t make the trade.

      • Habfan17 says:

        I would agree with you unless the Pens are really worried about his head. He is on a very long term contract and one more hit to the head may end his career. I am not sure if I would do it from the Montreal perspective either, just thought it would make a great debate.

        Habfan17

    • jctremblay says:

      Come on…try to be realistic. To get Crosby? You are talking Subban just for starters. Chucky. And multiple first rounders. EVen that might not do it.

      • Habfan17 says:

        I was, with two concussions and a year lost to them, and now the puck to the face, who would give up a Subban type player and multiple fort rounders. If the scouts working for central scouting were comiling their rankings knowing what they know about Subban now, he would have gone top 6. He is a finalist for the Norris, why do you over value Crosby. A proven 2nd line centre who everyone keeps saying is best player on Habs, a right wing prospect who has speed to burn, and edge and skill, 3rd maybe 2nd line, Gorges a 4/5 with experience, Dietz looking like a solid all round better version of Gorges, and a first round pick next year. That is plenty for one player, even if he is the best. You have to factor in risk and his contract length.

        Habfan17

    • JUST ME says:

      Again, as much as i admire Sid the kid , why always take damaged goods or someone else`s garbage and think it will do for MTL ? Not saying i would not enjoy having number 87 wearing bleu blanc rouge but no player is worth giving up our future no one. And with the financial side of things that many teams will have a tough time to deal with, i do not think it would be a wise move.

    • PrimeTime says:

      LMAO. You really think Pit would trade Crosby? Does Pocklington own the Pens and need money again?? This place can really be out there sometimes.

  28. jols101 says:

    MOAR Bickell.

    Let’s talk about Bickell some more. There hasn’t been near enough conversation about him.

    MOAR Bickell.

    • Habfan10912 says:

      You seem to be a bit fickle on Bickell, Jols?

      • jols101 says:

        I would love me some Bickell. His stock is going through the roof though. Going to be interesting July 5th if the hawks don’t re-sign him.

        • Habfan10912 says:

          I agree. Bickell’s timing here is impeccable. He’s about to become a very rich man.

          • jols101 says:

            Yep, I was much more excited about him when he was a 1.5 million a year possibility. Now it looks more like 3-4 million a year. That is a lot of cabbage. Good for Bickelle, not good for us signing him. Even after the Kaberle buyout we still can’t afford to spend that much on him.

  29. Un Canadien errant says:

    About Brian Bickell, let’s keep this debate in perspective. It’s not pro-Bickell vs. anti-Bickell. Not many fans are “down” about the concept. It’s more that some of us think his great playoff run has attracted so much attention, all teams will be vying for his services, and it won’t be possible to sign him to a reasonable amount or term. He’d still be a good player and valuable addition to the roster, but there are going to be better, more cost-effective ways to spend our cap room this summer.

    • Habfan17 says:

      Given what is available on the UFA matket this season, barring any players being available with the amnesty buyouts, I am not sure there are better, more cost effective players to add to the roster.

      I do agree that if teams drive his price way up and that is what is most important to him, he will price himself out of the budget. It is hard to find a player coming into the prime of his career that has his size and has had seasons of 23 points, 108 hits, short season, 24 points, 128 hits, and 37 points, 178 hits. I don;t believe that this one playoff is make or break. He may never have another playoff like this, but even if he had.5 points per game, stood in front of the net and could throw hits and win battles, he would be a solid addition. Nice comparison, Bickell, 23 points, plus 12, 108 hits.
      DD 28 points, minus 2, 26 hits, more ice time, $3.5 Million

      Who is worth more to the Habs? I say a 4 to 5 year contract that averages $4 million is worth the risk and fair for what he brings.

      Habfan17

  30. Un Canadien errant says:

    I’m a bit of a Jaromir Jagr skeptic, with his vacillation and contract teases (http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.ca/2012/07/jaromir-jagr-with-canadiens-deuxieme.html and http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.ca/2011/07/jaromir-jagr-doesnt-understand-need-for.html), but Elliotte Friedman has a good piece on his crazy workouts and dedication to training, on or off-ice.

    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2013/06/jaromir-jagr-demands-dedication-in-the-gym.html

    It looks like Jaromir Jagr is in a class of his own, reminiscent of Walter Payton, who also had a fanatical devotion to fitness his entire life. He used to run up a slope, which was dreaded by his teammates and spoken of reverently as The Hill, since they’d try to join him for those workouts and could only last a couple of days, they couldn’t withstand the pace, even guys who were much younger and supposed workout warriors.

    You can either admire Mr. Jagr, and I mostly do, for this, but you can also wonder about the empty apartment, and whether he lives a full enough life.

  31. Habfan17 says:

    Something to remember, it is good to have size, as long as there is also skill. Look at the 1999 draft. the Islanders took Kristian Kudroc, 6’7″ 255lbs with the 28th overall pick after taking Branislav Mezei, 6’4″ 235 lbs at 10th overall. Okay, it was the Islanders and if they weren’t trading away the best players they drafted, they drafted duds. But, add him to Chara who they drafted in the 3rd round in ’96 and Luongo, 1st overall in ’97 and if they kept them all and they turned out, that would be one tough team to score on. That is without mentioning Redden in ’95, Brewer in ’97 and Raffi Torres in 2000. Although then they would not have Tavares and some of the other top prospects.

    Next time we want to complain about the mess the Habs were, let’s take a deep breath and be glad that Milbury and Wang didn’t end up running and owning the Habs.

    Habfan17

    • SmartDog says:

      Sure, there are teams that have made more of a mess of themselves than us. And wow, the Isles blew it!

      But is that really a measure of success?

      ————————————-
      Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

      • Habfan17 says:

        No just a measure of optimism :) Especially now that Molson and Bergevin are in control. It is one thing to hire coaches without NHL experience. but when Corey hired Houle who then Hired Tremblay, what a disaster!!

        Habfan17

  32. Un Canadien errant says:

    Thinking of Mark Messier, he did very well, especially if he didn’t invest all of his earnings in fast cars and fast women during his Edmonton and early NYR period. Seeing how early he started earning a paycheque, inflation adjusted, that plays in his favour. Of course, early in his career, he was probably making a couple hundred grand a season only, so maybe that’s irrelevant.

    He also had to rake in money during his Madonna years, when he was ubiquitous, even on American TV. The Lays commercial endorsement was the his most memorable one, and he was with them for over a decade, maybe still is.

    Finally, to the disgust of Canucks fans, he pocketed an extra $6M or so from a court award related to the sale of the team and his putative contribution to its appreciation in value.

  33. Maritime Ron says:

    @ 24 Cups

    You posted a great list of retired players career earnings, but it’s actually mind boggling if you project some of the players still playing and what their NHL career earnings will be ( not counting endorsements) once all said and done:

    Sid Crosby: $150 Million
    Ilya Kovalchuk: $135 Million
    Shea Weber: $132 Million
    Alex Ovechkin: $128 Million
    Vinny Lecavalier: $121 Million
    Zack Parise: $118 Million
    Roberto Luongo: $97 Million

    Sources for career earnings:
    hockeyzoneplus.com
    capgeek.com

  34. Habs4LifeInTO says:

    Stevie, I like Mantha. You can’t teach scoring and he’s a native son I belive so that gives him the edge. having said that he probably won’t be there when we pick and I have gotten my head around either of the other two you mentioned as being about right for the Habs at 25. In my dreams Morin is around when we pick in the first round…..

    24 cups and counting….

  35. SmartDog says:

    WOULD YOU TRADE?

    Price and Plekanec for

    Malkin and Fleury?

    I’ve never liked Fleury so I wouldn’t. But this is the kind of deal you’d need to make to get Malkin and Malkin is awesome. Too bad there’s no other goalie in the pipeline.

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • Habfan17 says:

      No, but I would trade Pleks, Markov, Gorges, Diaz, and Holland for Yakupov, Paajarvi and a 3rd round choice this draft.

      Habfan17

      • ont fan says:

        Do you spend much time on these kind of trades?

        • Habfan17 says:

          Sometimes ad this works. The Oilers get an experienced defenceman in markov to mentor their young D. the Habs get something before his contract expires. The Oilers get two experienced defence to round out the group and a pretty good defensive centre in his prime to help the players up front. They also get a prospect from western Canada that will probably be a 3rd line player with character. They have enough top line skill and not much else. The Habs get a top end player in Yakupov who played well with Galchenyuk, Paajarvi who may or may not be a 2nd line left wing, but he fits what the Habs want, speed, skill and some more size. The extra draft pick offsets the risk with Paajarvi maybe only being a 3rd line player. Now the Habs also have cap room to go after a Clarkson, Beckell, and a defenceman or two. That still leaves the Habs with Subban, Emelin, when he returns, and Boullion. With two depth defenceman from the UFA route and Tinordi, Pateryn and Beaulieu, the Habs will be fine. They could keep Weber and Nygren may win a spot. He is already 22 and has been playing against men for two seasons.

          Habfan17

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      I would.

      But why would the Pens consider trading away one of the best players in the league unless they got an equally good player in return?

      • chanchilla says:

        they’re planning on buying out fleury, and trading him away is a much better option if the price is right. Not that this would be the right price.

        • ont fan says:

          They aren’t going to buy out Fleury. The Pens can’t win with Malkin and Crosby at their peek. How many blockbuster trades are there these days? Pie in the sky. You want Malkin it’s draft choices and prospects not veteran roster players.

      • Habfan17 says:

        There aren’t really many equals to Malkin. They would only trade him if they wanted to keep more players to balance the team in my opinion, He would bring two or three above average roster players and picks and prospects.

        Habfan17

      • Phil C says:

        If Malkin doesn’t sign an extension this year, they may want to trade him while he still has value rather than having him walk for nothing next year. It is the kind of trade that could quickly rebuild a franchise. It is how they handled the Staal situation.

        • Habfan17 says:

          Maybe that has been there plan with bringing in all the vets this season. Go for the cup now and rebuild some depth using Malkin later.

          Habfan17

          • Phil C says:

            I wondered about that as well, especially given how many draft picks and assets they gave up.

    • Maritime Ron says:

      Way too much.
      It should be Weber, Diaz, DD, and Moen
      :-)

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      Tout de suite.

    • Phil C says:

      Malkin would have to sign an extension for the deal to be worth it.

    • FANHABULOUS says:

      I don’t know if the Pens would make that trade, even though they have a LOT of players to resign this offseason… and I’m not sure if they can keep both Crosby and Malkin, and also be able to keep a good group of guys.

      Here’s a scenario that may be more realistic (and enticing) for the Pens:

      -If you were MB, would you trade all 6 of our pics this year for Malkin? Yes, we give up a lot of potential players… but we get a bona fide superstar, and with Malkin and Chucky as 1-2 down the road, we would be in great shape.

      Thoughts?

      ____________________________________
      “You will not regret picking me” – PK Subban.

      • SmartDog says:

        Inventive. But no I wouldn’t for this one main reason: with a cap, you get the most value out of your young players. Those young up-and-coming players are more than just energy, they can be HUGE bargains, and that makes up for some of mistakes and older guys slowing down. Look at Eller this year and DD the previous year. Subban at under 3 mil. Without these bargains we would have tanked. So even though Malkin is worth a lot, you can’t give up that much potential in future players and in cap-friendly value.

        ————————————-
        Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  36. habs001 says:

    Again DD has played just over 2 full seasons of regular season games…His stats are better than a lot of other players yet posters keep saying he is basically worthless…178 games played
    34 goals 77 assists 111 points and plus 4…..for a player not even drafted and have these type of stats and constantly ridiculed on this site is a joke…

    • Habfan17 says:

      I don’t think they ridicule him, it is more he is not the type of player the Habs need. As well, now that other teams know him, he is not doing as well. They are just pointing out facts. At least that is what i do. I watch him lose most of the battles for the puck, and he was not nearly as good this season as last. If he were at least good on faceoffs, that would help, but he is not. He has done very well for an undrafted player, but he is no Adam Oates, another undrafted player. Add to the fact that Eller is better on faceoffs, wins more battles and is younger, and then add in Galchenyuk, that drops DD to the 3rd line, but then there is Plekanec.

      Habfan17

    • bwoar says:

      He’s paid exactly fair for his production. Just wanna see if he can perform in the playoffs.

      “thoroughbred”

    • New says:

      I think with DD you’ll find he got about the same ratio of points per minute played this season as last. He just played fewer minutes. I think you’ll find that the fans sense DD will bump down to third or fourth line as other players develop and that at that point his production will slip in comparison to salary. DD can be moved at his price point but is good to have around in the event of injury. There will always be someone better than DD, but also a whole lot who are worse.

  37. Stevie.Ray says:

    If all three were available, would you rather have Erne, Rychel or Mantha. Mantha is probably the best scorer but softest. Erne is the grittiest, but scored the least. Rychel is somewhere in between but is the smallest.

    CS Final Rankings NA Skaters
    Mantha 10
    Rychel 17
    Erne 26

    ISS Ranking
    Rychel 20
    Mantha 24
    Erne >30

    Button’s List
    Mantha 16
    Erne 20
    Rychel 27

    Corey Pronman’s List
    Erne 18
    Mantha 22
    Rychel 44

    As you can see the rankings don’t help much.

  38. Maritime Ron says:

    Re the Bickell situation.

    The big question for Habs management:
    Do they firmly believe Bickell could take on a bigger role with the Habs vs. other teams, as Branden Prust did for us this year compared to his Rangers role?

    If so, then chase him hard.
    There may be another way to entice Bickell beside just money and that would be with more, and possibly Top 6-9 minutes and more of a leadership role.

    During this past season, Bickell had 9 goals/23 points playing only 12:48 per game.
    Just 2 years ago, he had 17 Goals/37 points, yet had just slightly more ice time (13:50)

    Not much has changed in the playoffs regarding time.
    He is the 8th ranked Hawks forward for total time with 13:28 average per game, and the 7th ranked Hawks forward for Power Play time.

    The young man just turned 27, and you have to believe his best years are in front of him.
    As the Hawks stand now, there just may not be room for him in a larger role.

    With the time spent in the Hawks org. by both Bergevin and Dudley, they should know well if he is a true competitor, good guy in the room….or just another flash in the pan.

    Those factors will dictate whether or not we take a good run at signing him.

    • Stevie.Ray says:

      I think longer term will also entice him too. I would not be afraid of offering a 5 year contract (even if they have gotten us in trouble in the past)

      • Maritime Ron says:

        Term may be important to him, yet possibly the most amount of money in the shortest period of time may be the factor.
        Here is a guy that has not earned $2M in his career, so he must have a lot of toys he’s looking at…

        For a team, term may be a good thing.
        Even though the Cap will be $63.3M next year, perhaps 5 years down the road, the Cap may be $90M or more.
        That $4M doesn’t look so bad down the road, and if he continues his progression as mentioned, it could actually be a big bargain.

  39. Habfan17 says:

    Not sure why people are down on signing Bickell,
    He had 23 points and was plus 12 this season with 108 hits. The last two seasons he had 24 points with 128 hits and 37 points with 178 hits. Last time I looked, the Habs do not have any players on the roster or in the system that are 6’4″ and 233 lbs that have put up points like that and hit as well. Even if he never replicates his playoff run of this year, so what. At $3 – $3.5 million/season for 3 or 4 years, he would fill the 2nd line left wing spot. Then Bourque could move back to right wing to replace Ryder. I don’t see the big risk in that.

    Habfan17

  40. NL Hab says:

    For all of the Bryan Bickell to Joel Ward/Fernando Pisani/etc comparisons, the fact of the matter is that he has always been a point producer to a certain degree. He has averaged 0.43 PPG in his last 3 seasons. He is obviously not a # 1 line player, but he is a guy that can play on the 2nd-4th lines. I would love for the Habs to get this guy in the offseason, but someone is going to offer him a ridiculous contract.

    Chicago really does not get enough credit for producing great NHL players. The same thing happened after they last won the cup, they had to trade Versteeg, Ladd, Byfuglien, Brower etc because of the cap. Those are big time players. Now they are going to have to let Bickell walk away for nothing this year.

    Everyone is saying that he is going to cash in big time. How much could he conceivably get. Would someone offer him more than $3.5M/year. I could live with a $2.5M/year contract, but that would be as high as I would go. I think someone could offer him in the 3-4M range.

    Et Le But

    • Habfan17 says:

      When you look at what other players make that produce like him and have his size and hits, $3 – $3.5 average over 3 to 4 years is about right. He is 27 and has been pretty consistent. He was also behind other players in the Chicago depth chart and he would get the chance to play left wing on the 2nd line and get timeon the 2nd PP. That should bring up his numbers.

      Habfan17

  41. PrimeTime says:

    The question of trades et al come down to what does the team need to compete more consistently and what is the team willing to sacrifice to do so?? Do you trade Price for a power forward? If so, what do you need to trade to get a #1 in net, prospect and a 2nd round draft pick? Will those 2 moves get you to the 2nd round of the playoffs next year?? Is that enough?? Not in my opinion! Strong teams have depth and teams with the most depth have the most assets, ergo assets make you strong. You build depth through the draft. Hab fans will need to continue to be patient while the younger players continue to develop and more assets are accrued. FYI – to the Smart Dog and Trini type of posers here…..Weber Diaz, DD are throw in’s, not assets.

    • NL Hab says:

      I think Diaz could fetch a 3rd or 4th rounder. However, Weber and DD are dead weight. Especially DD. At least we can walk away from the Weber experiment this year.

      In regards to Markov and Gionta chatter from below, this is probably the worst year possible for us to have these guys going into their final year of their respective deals. Almost every team is going to be unloading big contract like these guys. This is going to be the definition of a sellers market this year. I’m not sure what we can get for these guys. No chance we can unload them at the draft, maybe get some picks at the deadline, hopefully.

      Et Le But

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      SmartDog and Habstrinifan are not “types of posers” or posters, whichever you meant. They’re both cherished individuals, members of this community, who contribute in a positive, respectful way.

  42. SmartDog says:

    5 QUESTIONS:

    1. With his first five picks, how many players will MB draft under 6’1″?
    2. Since MB has beefed up our Quebec scouting, will we draft a lot of poutine-eaters? I mean Pepsis… I mean square heads (oh wait, that’s me). I mean French-Canadians?
    3. Everyone wants a Bickell. Without him we’re in a pickle. (I worked all morning on that.) Based on insight into MB, wild speculation, tea leave readings or whatever, what is the likelihood he ends up a Hab?
    4. Now that a goalie coach change is coming, who’s our face-off coach? And do we need a new one?
    5. Would Bergevin be foolish NOT to trade either Gionta or Markov this summer? (To me these are our most valuable assets. Markov is awesome but seriously slowing. Gionta is good but we need to get bigger.)

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • Habsrule1 says:

      I’ll play.

      1. ZERO
      2. I hope so….if they are as good or better than the next guy.
      3. I’d say fairly unlikely just because other GM’s will overpay based on a small sample size and MB will not.
      4. We don’t have one but we should. Yanick Perrault was good, wasn’t he?
      5. I doubt either player is traded. I don’t think he’d be foolish to hang onto them, unless he can find a really good deal out there.
      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

    • GrosBill says:

      1. Probably none but hard to say
      2. If they are the best availible when we select, maybe a few.
      3. About a 1 in 30 chance
      4. Not sure, but I am sure that I would like Jarvis to still be here.
      5. If he only gets poor offers, then yes he would not be foolish to hang on to them. Both would probably fetch more at the deadline anyway.

    • Fransaskois says:

      1. I think there are a couple of players he could draft (Lehkonen, Subban, Duclair etc) that could be very good pick ups. Luckily for us, there’re also several big prospects we can look at. It’ll be interesting to see how Bergevin’s input affects Timmins drafting and the team’s direction.
      2. I think there are a lot of good Q prospects this year and I have faith he won’t reach for them, probability is we’ll get one because of how many there are. (Poirier, Dauphin, Mantha, Laplante, Paquin-Boudreau, Duclair etc.)
      3. Very small likelihood, I think he’s priced himself out of Bergevin’s range with this anomaly of a playoff run.
      4. I like the Yanick Perrault idea from Habsrule1. It’s something we sorely lack and I think our possession game would really benefit from it.
      5. It depends on the return. If we’re out of playoff contention, I’d have no qualms moving either of them. It gives them a chance at the cup, which they wouldn’t have with MTL, and it would keep us from losing them for nothing. Even a 3rd round pick is better than nothing.

      My first ever 5 questions…. Momentous day.

    • Stevie.Ray says:

      1. I would rather have a 5’11” player that will make the NHL, than a 6’4” guy who will suck in the minors. Always take the player with the best chance to make an NHL impact regardless of size or position. That said, this appears to be a larger than normal draft class.

      2. This is a good year for QMJHL prospects so there is a good chance of it.

      3. As good as anyone I think. I think MB will make a serious effort to get him. Even if he doesn’t score he brings intangibles we need.

      4. Wonder how much a faceoff coach would be paid.

      5. I think you wait until trade deadline to maximize return and because we don’t have anyone who can step into their role at the moment. Wait until Beaulieu is ready and maybe sign or trade for a top 6 winger.

      • SmartDog says:

        Re. the Faceoff coach.

        Isn’t the idea that since there’s a Cap that we can’t escape but we’re a flush team we have more to spend on the other things that help the team succeed – like coaching and scouting? I would guess a decent assistant coach makes 150-200k. Pennies when you think that your (expendable) depth players are making 700k.

        And what’s an important faceoff win worth? (See Halpern thrown out of the circle vs Bruins.)

        ————————————-
        Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  43. 24 Cups says:

    Here are the top 25 accumulated career salary totals in the NHL (as of 2012). Blake, Kariya and Tkachuk have to make me laugh. Then there’s Richards and Weight.

    Alas, no Gretzky or Mario.

    1 – Jaromir Jagr: $101,338,851
    2 – Nicklas Lidstrom: $100,365,000
    3 – Chris Pronger: $93,900,500
    4 – Joe Sakic: $93,174,047
    5 – Paul Kariya: $82,686,100
    6 – Keith Tkachuk: $80,498,674
    7 – Rob Blake: $80,487,982
    8 – Mats Sundin: $79,669,132
    9 – Mike Modano: $75,837,650
    10 – Martin Brodeur: $73,053,018
    11 – Jarome Iginla: $69,025,000
    12 – Teemu Selanne: $68,857,790
    13 – Vincent Lecavalier: $66,550,000
    14 – Pavel Bure: $66,369,794
    15 – Sergei Fedorov: $65,519,036
    16 – Peter Forsberg: $65,405,213
    17 – Steve Yzerman: $64,672,616
    18 – Joe Thornton: $63,431,000
    19 – Brendan Shanahan: $60,915,000
    20 – Ed Jovanovski: $59,740,000
    21 – Brad Richards: $59,726,000
    22 – Mark Messier: $59,542,008
    23 – Brian Leetch: $59,501,250
    24 – Doug Weight: $58,954,775
    25 – Marian Hossa: $58,550,000

    • BrianSkrudland says:

      Absolutely stunning numbers. Oh, the trouble I would get into with access to that kind of cash.

      ————-
      Daily recommendations for June 7
      Song of the Day: Refugee (Tom Petty)
      Movie of the Day: A Bridge Too Far

    • habs-fan-84 says:

      Kariya was a point per game player over the course of his career. A career that also could have been so much more.

    • mrhabby says:

      Kariya…$82m. man did i pick the wrong line of work..wow.

      • Les Canayens says:

        98% of those who choose this line of work early playing in AAA, Bantam, Junior, AHL..etc, will never see those kind of money neither.

    • Timo says:

      I am disappointed that Gomer is not on that list.

    • Bripro says:

      I loved the Russian Rocket. He was the smoothest skater I’ve ever seen in person.
      But he hasn’t played in a long time. And salaries were lower then.
      I’m perplexed to comprehend how he can be on this list, but 99 or 66 aren’t there, as you pointed out.
      And who deserves more $$$ than those two.
      We could even add Lafleur to round up the top 3, or Bobby Orr, or the Rocket.
      I realize it’s a long time ago, but talk about inflation!!!

    • NL Hab says:

      A lot of shocking names on that list. Paul Kariya……wow.

      Et Le But

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      We can see how the salary cap has kept salaries lower for current players, whereas players like Pavel Bure, Mark Messier and Paul Kariya hit the sweet spot: played during the salary explosion of the 90’s, but had the bulk of their career before 2005.

      Longevity plays a huge role in these figures, which shows again how Pavel Bure was able to maximize his earnings during his shortened career, to the chagrin of Canucks fans.

      Chris Pronger is set to add another $14M over the next four years his contract will run, with the last two seasons ‘backdiving’ down to half a mill. I wonder how they handle that, does he retire at that point as was always meant to happen, or do the Flyers and he continue the pretense of the long-term injury? Does he hang on for the extra mill? Is that ethical with respect to the team? The League? If he does retire then, does it ‘prove’ the League’s case that it was a cap-circumventing contract?

      Vincent Lecavalier will rapidly climb these ‘standings’ with an additional $45M over the next seven years, unless he’s bought out, which would net him $30M. Of course, making up the 15 mill would be easy for him, he’d make that in his last couple of contracts with a new team, probably more.

      One puzzler is how Keith Tkachuk made all that money in the desert. I guess the Coyotes were making money before they moved to Glendale?

      Thanks for posting 24 Cups, interesting figures.

    • Fransaskois says:

      Don’t mean to get political or negative but…. a school teacher doesn’t even sniff that kind of money unless they win the lottery. Makes you wonder where our priorities as a society are. Perfect juxtaposition between long term benefits (teachers) and short term entertainment.

      An interesting world we live in.

      • PrimeTime says:

        Entertainment and Commerce are private industries that generate tax dollars. Education is public infrastructure that requires tax dollars. Society cannot have a strong infrastructure without a strong private industry.

        • ebk says:

          Society cannot have a strong private industry without a strong public infrastructure.

          • PrimeTime says:

            Exactly!! Which is why governments look to attract more industry to improve their infrastructure. Which is the chicken and which is the egg??

          • ebk says:

            actually, they’ve tried it that way for about fourty years. All it’s lead to is record corporate profits, a crumbling public infrastructure and a shrinking and over-taxed middle class. But this isn’t the form for that debate.

      • New says:

        You could say the same about any entertainment field. Ask a kid what happened in physics class today and you get a shrug. Ask her what is new with Bieber’s monkey and she’ll go for an hour.

        It is what it is.

  44. Chuck says:

    I love these “I would trade…” (insert Weber, Diaz, Desharnais, etc.) posts.

    You don’t trade a player you want to trade; you trade a player who another team would want.

    __________________________________________________
    Anyone but the Sens! (Check.) And Boston. Oh, and the Laffs, too. (Double check.)

    • Kooch7800 says:

      Like the oilers trying to trade Hemsky or Horcoff LOL

      “Keep your stick on the Ice”

    • SmartDog says:

      “People don’t want 1/4 inch drill bits, they want quarter inch holes! ”

      You are right. But Diaz is very trade-able. And some people would want Weber. A depth D who has some useful PP skill. And teams that are finding themselves too big would want DD. Hahahahahaha!!

      Also very trade-able: Markov and Gionta. Two guys with big contracts who are worth their salt but should be replaced by younger more durable (in the case of Markov) and bigger (Gionta) guys.

      ————————————-
      Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

      • Ozmodiar says:

        >Also very trade-able: Markov and Gionta.

        NTC’s

      • PrimeTime says:

        Trade to what team?? What would you ask in return?? Trading players that Smart Dog doesnt like probably isnt at the top of MB’s priority list. Perhaps MB actually talks to other GM’s and confers with his staff who are a tad more informed of the positions of the other teams than the fans for possibilities to improve the team ?? Just a guess!

  45. Habsrule1 says:

    I’m in shock that someone (Cal) posted that Keith should not have been suspended.
    The NHL got it right. If not for what Richards did, the suspension could have been 3-5 games. They took into account Richard’s actions and only gave him 1 game.
    FFS the guy swung and hit someone IN THE FACE with his stick!

    Go Habs Go!!

    “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

    • Cal says:

      Read my post again. I wrote that Carter should have been suspended for what he did JUST BEFORE Keith swung his stick.

      • Kooch7800 says:

        retaliation always gets penalized. Not saying it is right but is reality.

        remember the Alexander Perezhogin slash to the face? The guy swong at his head first but missed and he turned around and got the guy in the face not fulling knowing where he was slashing. It was a really stupid move but he only got suspended. the other guy should have as well but doesn’t excuse being an idiot.

        Just cause someone bumps me doesn’t give me the right to punch them in the face

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytNvspVNrWA

        “Keep your stick on the Ice”

        • Cal says:

          The NHL allows a player to attack another and penalizes the retaliation instead. Bush officiating by a bush league.

          • Kooch7800 says:

            Not just the NHL though Cal. Hockey in general. We were always taught not to retaliate cause that is the penalty that gets called.

            “Keep your stick on the Ice”

          • New says:

            Probably why some people say the instigator rule is BS and causes just this type of situation.

      • Habsrule1 says:

        Ok, sorry Cal. I think he did not get suspended because the league decided, instead, to lower Keith’s suspension.
        If they suspended both, I’d say they would have given Carter (sorry brain fart when I wrote Richards) 1 game and Keith 2 or 3. That would have made more sense to me, but it is the NHL.

        Go Habs Go!!

        “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

    • Kooch7800 says:

      I agree.
      I think you mean carters actions LOL not Richards. I think they are twisted in your mind someone cause they are both ex philly punks

      What carter did was a dick move but would be maybe a 2 minute penalty. Keith’s move was just stupid.

      “Keep your stick on the Ice”.

  46. 24 Cups says:

    There is some talk of trading for Hemsky. I can’t see it.

    He has one year left at 5M before becoming an UFA. So in many regards he may well be a rental. You also have to ask who would be going the other way. Probably a Dman, a position which is hardly a strength for the team right now.

    Hemsky is very injury prone. He has only played one full year out of ten. He’s also a bit too fancy, more of a playmaker than a scorer. I’d rather see the team go after an amnesty buyout player for one year to fill the gap. Havlat and Heatley come to mind.

    • knob says:

      Or how about the team targets a hard-nosed top six guy that has a history of producing in the playoffs. I agree that there is no need for Hemsky.

    • christophor says:

      I think Hemsky would fit in well with a good team. He’s not what a bottom-feeding team really needs. Pacioretty, Plekanec, and Hemsky would make a great line with enough finishing capability to complement Hemsky’s playmaking. I bet quite a bit that Hemsky would have career numbers. This would also again give the Habs great top-9 depth. If they need to get more rugged, it’s on defence.

      P.S. Hemsky hasn’t disappeared in the playoffs.

  47. John Frodo says:

    If its true that the Islanders are willing to sell their 15 th pick for $24 million why does some insane Habs fan not start a kickstarter to help raise the cash. I could be wrong but its 1.5 million a year, not a lump sum payment. It will be very interesting to see what Terry Belga the Billionaire owner of the Sabers does.

    • 24 Cups says:

      That would mean a 1.5m cap hit for 16 years. That would also mean the Habs would be playing a man short for that entire length of time. Guys presently in that salary range are Diaz, Eller and Moen.

      A 15th pick in the first round would probably be a 50/50 shot at success. Even if he made it to the NHL, his career would be coming to an end around the same time as the buyout.

      No way.

      • christophor says:

        They could use their amnesty buyout on Dipietro and then use a regular buyout on Kaberle. There would only be a 1.25 mill cap hit next year, then a 1.5 mill cap hit the year after. But 24 million is way too much for a 15th pick. The overall success of players picked there is probably far below the kind of player that makes even 24 million over a career, and even if that kind of player were picked, that 24 million he would make would be on top of the 24 already paid. He would have to be a steal at the 15th spot.

        If it were Dipietro, Niederreiter, and the 15th pick for some smallish return, then maybe we’re talking. If I were an owner without regard for money – i.e. who owns a hockey team for the pure joy of it (are there any of these?) – then I’d definitely take advantage of the rare opportunity to buy my team’s way forward. That’s an opportunity the cap system was supposed to abolish and, but for the (comparatively small) disparity between cap-floor and cap-ceiling teams, it’s been successful in accomplishing that. (Case in point: the rarity of repeat Cup winners).

        • 24 Cups says:

          Right. Sorry about that brain cramp on Kaberle.

          Even so, back in the day Chicago was going to “buy” the Big M for a million dollars. The deal was scuttled once the owners sobered up the next day.

        • Ozmodiar says:

          >If it were Dipietro, Niederreiter, and the 15th pick for some smallish return

          …like Kaberle?

          • bwoar says:

            Dipietro & Niederreiter for Kaberle & Kristo?

            “thoroughbred”

          • christophor says:

            That’s a negative return. If they take Kaberle then you have to give them even more on top than you would have given if you didn’t add Kaberle

      • HabFanSince72 says:

        Not a cap hit – just a cash hit (but it would mean not buying out Kaberle).

        All Molson needs to do is water down the beer sold at the Bell Ctr by about 5% to cover that.

  48. Cal says:

    Into everyone’s life, a little Rain must fall.

  49. hab fan in leaf jungle says:

    Flashbacks are all that Habs fans will have for the next 20 years as long as the team has the same management philosophy which is to pretend that anyone you draft is a thoroughbred and that you can win with little smurfs and floaters who are French-Canadian and/or willing to do whatever the org. says and keep their mouths shut. The Habs are turning into the Leafs. 20 years and not even a Cup final appearance. You fans have to get real. There is not going to be a Cup parade for another 25 years minimum. Mark my words. Keep on talking about line combos and little fixer ideas. It’d be better if fans chased some players out of town like Price, DD, Diaz, Markov, Pleks, Gorges and most of that team of 4th liners. Ask for nothing in return b/c in a cap world no one wants useless players on their rosters b/c of a pipe dream. Put them all on waivers, bring up the young talent and watch them play their own style that they are comfy playing and if they look bad send them back or waive them through the league, finish at the bottom for several years if needed, draft in the top 5(use Central Scouting’s listings as Timmins and his staff are idiots) and hopefully you’ll get to the promised land. Fire Timmins; that idiot has wasted enough draft picks over the years and brought DUDS in who are now taking up big cap space. Check his record of 1st and 2nd round picks compared to other teams who selected AFTER the Habs. It’s atrocious. Look at the 4 teams left and Detroit and see how they drafted. Boston and Detroit and LA have drafted well even though they didn’t finish at the bottom for any extended period. They traded well unlike Gainey and PG and didn’t delude themselves about players like Gorges, DD, Max Pac, Eller etc. Wake up.

  50. habs-fan-84 says:

    If Bickell doesn’t sign in Chicago (something I doubt), then some dumb GM will overpay big time.

    There is a player who “breaks out” in the playoffs almost every year. Bickell is no different, he’s in the “zone” right now, he’s caught lightning in a bottle. These things do not last. Over an 82 game schedule, look for Bickell to regress back to his mean.

    I would have been more excited to sign Bickell had he only scored a goal or two. Unfortunately, his market value has increased exponentially, unnecessarily. MB will not be so stupid to get sucked into the Bickell sweepstakes.

    In any event good on Bickell, he is having a great run. He’ll remember these playoffs the rest of his life and will be paid handsomely for it too.

    • knob says:

      Unless you can get Bickell for 2.5-3mil I would pass. This guy is a bottom six forward in a cap era. If some team wants to pay 4+ mil then they can have him.

  51. Forum Dog says:

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=424887

    Oilers looking to trade some vets. Maybe they could use some veteran help on the back-end? How about Gorges for Hemsky – straight up hockey trade?

    • knob says:

      No, we don’t need Hemsky

    • bwoar says:

      I’m not a big JG fan, so I say, do this immediately.

      “thoroughbred”

    • habs-fan-84 says:

      please, absolutely not on Hemsky.

      • Forum Dog says:

        Proven play-maker from the RW. RH shot. True puck-possession type who likes to gain the zone. I know he is more than a little injury prone. Dunno, I’ve always liked Hemsky as a player, and if the Habs are keeping Plekanec around he might be a nice fit.

        Gorges brings a lot of intangibles to the table, but I think the Habs have enough in pipeline to fill his spot. Or they could find a reasonably priced UFA. If everyone is honest, I think they’ll agree that Gorgy is a bottom pairing d-man on a good team.

        Basically you’d be adding a top-six forward for a 4-6 d-man. Money is comparable. And Hemsky could fill the spot left by Ryder. I like it. Doubt it happens however….

    • Kooch7800 says:

      that is their GM trying to get some sucker to trade for Horcoff….no one in their right mind would pick up that contract. He will be bought out.

      Hemsky could be trade bait but I wouldn’t give up anything for him. He is so soft he should be a pillow and he is always hurt.

      “Keep your stick on the Ice”

  52. commandant says:

    3 years, 9 million (3 million AAV) is the highest I go on Bickell.

    While he might be blossoming, he could also just be Joel Ward in Nashville or Ethan Moreau in Edmonton… to add to the Druce, Kontos names brought up earlier.

    Go Habs Go!
    Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

    • habstrinifan says:

      I think MB’s first offer should be 3.5 (3YRS is fine) and I know it’s risky but I would go as high as 4 to 4.5.

      You of course may be right and this guy could be a flash. But..
      Physical gifts A1.
      Talent Bplus to A LEVEL
      JNR career A+ with definite upward curve seen.
      NHL career Satisfactory and then definitely upward curve.
      Mental makeup… Needs to be given leadership challenges.

      I woud really have sleepless nights losing this guy because somebody paid him 4mill and I didnt.

      Of course it’s a gamble.. but …

    • Phil C says:

      Add Pisani to that list. Scored 14 goals in the 2006 playoffs, never scored more than 14 again in the regular season, yet he got a $2.5M/year for 4 years after that playoffs.

    • Kooch7800 says:

      Bickel won’t make the market unless he wants insane money. Chi town will bring him back.

      The good thing is MB having been with the Hawks would really know what he is like so he can make an make a smart move and decide whether to pitch or not.

      “Keep your stick on the Ice”

  53. SmartDog says:

    Flames managed to sign Ramo. Their replacement for Kipper. Which PG deal was he a “thow-in” on?

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • Mattyleg says:

      You think he’s that good?

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • commandant says:

        The thing with Ramo is that he was never gonna play for Montreal.

        He could make 2-3 million a year as a starter in the KHL, so why come here to make less as a backup.

        Calgary now offers him an opportunity to compete with Reto Berra to be the starter and if he performs well can obviously get a big contract on his next deal. But in Montreal the opportunity to play enough games to showcase himself was lacking.

        All that said… he really wasn’t that good for Tampa when he was in the NHL before. He might be a decent guy now, but I can’t see him being anything special.

        Go Habs Go!
        Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
        http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • habstrinifan says:

          Hi Commandant, Can you help me find a detailed pre draft and even post draft analysis of Bickell. I looked but could only find odds and ends. I liked his OHL career from what I found, so he must have been reviewed a lot.

          • commandant says:

            I don’t know that I have anything saved from that far back. I know i was in school and wasn’t watching as many as I do today or writing at all.

            Go Habs Go!
            Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
            http://lastwordonsports.com/

        • Kooch7800 says:

          his NHL numbers it needs to be noted that he was 20 years old as well though.

          “Keep your stick on the Ice”

      • Kooch7800 says:

        He has played well over seas. Not that this really means anything though. He could be a solid back up

        “Keep your stick on the Ice”

      • 24 Cups says:

        He’s also going to be playing in front of Calgary. That may be a tough task. Same goes for that Yogi Berra guy that Calgary traded for at the deadline.

    • Habfan17 says:

      The Cammaleri one I believe

      Habfan17

    • habs-fan-84 says:

      And…?

    • Max says:

      He would only play in Montreal if he was the starter.We have Price so Ramo was just a name that was never going to sign in Montreal.No loss.

  54. Mattyleg says:

    Hey all,
    Looking at these last few games in the playoffs, I’m not satisfied.
    There’s far too much illegal stuff going on that isn’t being called.
    Clutching, grabbing, late hits, stickwork… I don’t get it.

    It seems like Bettman is going down the road of George Lucas in his three latest Star Wars films, in which what the game looks like to the untrained eye is more important that the actual content of the game, which is what makes games classic.

    I recently did an NHL Fan Faceoff Survey. I do them often, whenever they are sent to me. Unfortunately, the survey almost never has any interest in what fans want in the game, they usually have questions only about marketing, or marketing-type information.

    The latest one asked me which of the final 4 teams I thought played an ‘exciting’ style of hockey, and which ones I thought played a ‘boring’ style of hockey. I was freakin’ outraged! I clicked ‘neither’ for all of them. Why in God’s name should the NHL be interested in which teams fans thought were boring or exciting?! It gets all kinds of conspiracy theory alarms going off…

    What do you guys think of this?

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • Timo says:

      You realize it has been this way EVERY SINGLE YEAR. How is that a revelation?

    • mrhabby says:

      and if penalties were called it would take “the flow away” from the game. this has been going on for years even as far back when i was a preteen watching and playing hockey.

    • Phil C says:

      I agree, the NHL has zero integrity. They don’t care about the game, just whether or not they can make money. It’s too bad the commissioner’s role could not be separated from the NHL. Divide the hockey responsibilities away from the business responsibilities. Have a separate governing body, like the USGA and R&A in golf. Of course, this would never happen, but it would be nice.

      Ironically, I think if they just allowed the refs to call everything they see, regardless of game situation, the game would probably speed up instead of slow down as players would have to be more careful in close games, and they would know what to expect for the refs. Who knows what the refs will call in the current environment.

      • mrhabby says:

        how would the game speed up. I only see it slowing with a constant parade of players going to the box. refs would call everything..the difficulty is the game is so fast and every situation different.

        • Phil C says:

          Right now, there is so much obstruction, that the pace of the game is slow. If the players knew everything would be called, they would have to be more careful, and the game would open up.

          I think most refs know what is a penalty and what isn’t, even at NHL speed. The problem is that they are expected to consider the game situation, which is an almost impossible standard. If they were simply required to call infractions as they see them, there would be much more consistency.

        • Mattyleg says:

          Like with any game, the players would quickly figure out what was allowed and what wasn’t, and it wouldn’t just be a free-for-all-shitshow that it is now.

          —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • wjc says:

        Hockey is a business, period.

        If you called all infractions there would be no game.

        You cannot compare it to golf….hitting a ball walking after it…repeat.
        No body contact, interaction, speed, just hit and walk.
        Hockey is a fast spontaneous game, the refs would ruin the game by calling everything. Just like the linesmen trying to have perfect faceoffs. Nothing is perfect.

        wjc

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      I wouldn’t blame Bettman. It’s always been like this.

      Refs are afraid of calling penalties in the playoffs. Always have been.

      There’s still the Olympics and World Juniors for those of us who want to watch the game we love.

  55. habstrinifan says:

    Seriously, what would you do if you were Habs GM to acquire Bickell.

    This has to be a very serious and bold and maybe even extravagant move by MB in my opinion. I do not believe the Bickell we are seeing is a ‘one time’ flash. H e may just be the top 3 among POWER forwards in the league next year.

    HABS have to go big and bold… forget being being cautious here.

    Edit: This is Bickell’s draft analysis.
    Talent Analysis

    Bickell has always had the ability to take over shifts since he is a huge, strong and powerful hitter, a good skater with a heavy shot. However, his effort and interest levels have also been questionable over the years.
    ===========
    With a player who has ‘all the other tools’, the emergence of ‘learned work ethic’ completes the package. And Bickell’s career, even in the OHL, shows that he has always been a ‘later bloomer’.

    • mrhabby says:

      aside from the money and thats a biggie..i really can’t see Bickell coming to Mtl. He is achieving success with teamates in Chicago and could go to the finals. He knows the people he works with now. I just can’t see it happening.

    • Mattyleg says:

      MB said it: Every team is looking for players like that.

      As I’ve said, the big crash-bang guys are as valuable and in as short stock as the supremely skilled ones.

      Don’t forget, though. Some players light the place up in the playoffs and get everyone drooling, only to fall flat afterwards.

      John Druce, anyone?

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • Habfan17 says:

      Unlike some posters here, I do think Bickell would come to Montreal. Bergevin is building a team for the future and to be competitive every year. As well, the Habs need a 2nd line power forward so he would have the opportunity right away. No question based on his performance, they will have to overpay to some degree. The real question is, has Bickell finally arrived or is this playoff a one of?

      If the Habs can sign him say for $3.5 – $4 million/year/4 years, it is worth the gamble. It is no more of a gamble than Cole was. He is only 27 whereas Cole was 32 and had a lot more miles on him.

      I would say yes, take the chance at that salary. If they can sign Bickell, maybe they could attract another like Clarkson. Then if they can get a centre for the 4th line and a crease clearing defenseman to fill in for a seaon or two, they would be a much different team

      Patches, DD, Clarkson
      Bickell, Pleks, Bourque
      Prust, Galchenyuk, Gallagher
      Moen, White, Kristo

      If they did get both players, I would see them trading Gionta, maybe even Pleks. I would trade Gorges, Weber and Diaz if it meant getting a top 2 mean defenceman. If Bergevin could do it, I would trade Pleks, Gionta, Gorges, Markov, and Diaz to Nashville for Weber and a 2nd and 4th round picks. Then the defence looks real solid
      Emelin Subban
      Beaulieu, Weber
      Tinordi, Boullion
      Pateryn

      Habfan17

      • habstrinifan says:

        I think he would come too but MB needs to do a few things…

        1) He has to approach it as if Bickell is like a Scott Stevens .. you know not a flash in the pan and dont try and talk to him as a 50 goal scorer… but a big solid team leader.
        2)Concentrate on Bickell’s OHL career and focus on that when talking to Bickell.. I think it will impress Bickell.
        3)Make the ‘offer’ a very very serious one.. MB would be taking a chance here but come up with a ceiling and go for it. If Bickell passes so be it.
        4) Talk as if Bickell would be coming to the HABS as if he had been a first round top 5 pick being inserted into the lineup. In other words make Bickell feel like top shelf talent in every respect.

        I really believe MB needs to give it a BIG SHOT.

      • John Frodo says:

        Did Eller retire?

  56. Kooch7800 says:

    I was sure the Kings were going to win last night…..great game by the hawks. They are really starting to find their stride. I hope they beat the bloody Bruins

    “Keep your stick on the Ice”

    • habstrinifan says:

      I found the game slow.

      • Cal says:

        Very, but the ice in LA must be like slogging through slush.

      • Kooch7800 says:

        LA can’t run and gun with the hawks. They just don’t have the fire power. The LA series vs St Louis was unreal to watch this year.

        None of the series after have been that exciting since. If Boston vs Chi town in the final I will be cheering for Chi town but will be honest I probably won’t watch any of it

        “Keep your stick on the Ice”

      • wjc says:

        No horse in the race….so maybe you are hockey’d out. Time to flip to something else, read that important book, phone that old friend, take that vacation, learn a new instrument, take a college course, pick up the tools and fix something, run for election…………………………..leave hockey to those who can never get enough or are trapped.

        Help I hate Hockey night in Canada, but I can’t stop watching. I hate soft goalie, soft team, bad refs….but I can’t stop watching…..help me!!!!

        wjc

  57. habstrinifan says:

    The playoffs have deteriorated some. Want Penns and Kings to get outta the way now and start the finals. I feel it’s gonna be a kinda war.

  58. ZepFan2 says:

    For those who missed it: If Game Of Thrones took place entirely on Facebook

    ———————————————————————-
    Ka is a wheel.

    “On we sweep, with threshing oar.
    Our only goal will be the Stanley Cup!” – Danno

    For Your Life

  59. habstrinifan says:

    I wonder what priority does perceived “good moral character” play in habs acquistions. It seems thas as ‘hockey players’ our players make real good people.

  60. commandant says:

    Pavel Buchnevich, a talented Russian Forward, who would go higher if not for being signed for two more years in the KHL.

    http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/06/07/pavel-buchnevich-2013-nhl-draft-player-profile-56/

    Go Habs Go!
    Your 2013 NHL Draft Headquarters, Now Open.
    http://lastwordonsports.com/

  61. 24 Cups says:

    He won’t be the last.

    I agree with his decision. Take your Cup ring and 29M and start anew. Screw the NHL and it’s barbaric culture of violence.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/andy-mcdonald-st-louis-blues-retires-due-post-171243970.html

    • Lafleurguy says:

      The violence is rooted in unfortunately. Remember Maurice Richard versus Hal Laycoe? Ted Green vs. Chico Maki? Eddie Shore vs. Ace Bailey? Today’s players weren’t even born at the time of those past violent acts.

      “May you live in interesting times.”

    • habstrinifan says:

      Dont want to be alarmist but does it seem that Sidney Crosby has been demonstrating a character change?

    • Cal says:

      The NHL will be sued and they will either lose or be publicly humiliated. Then, there will be a culture change as all the purposefully blind imbeciles will be replaced by people with common sense. That’s my hope, at least.

    • Marc10 says:

      Agree. Safe play for Mcdonald… some guys never fully recover. Why compromise your longer post hockey life when the NHL is pushing MMA hockey vs the skilled game he brought.

  62. HabFanSince72 says:

    It’s interesting how players play better on a confident team or a team that is doing well. Oduya and Roszival have been mentioned but how about Michal Handzus? Dumped by the Sharks for a 4th rounder at the trade deadline.

    • Phil C says:

      Looking like a good pick up now. Sometimes it is about finding the right fit.

    • ed says:

      Average players can play excellent hockey playing for a winning team.

      They feel an obligation to raise their compete level to “fit in” and to help the team continue its winning ways.

      There is a “momentum” that carries a winning team, and the players ride this wave.

      • Maritime Ron says:

        Line mates, culture, coaching.

      • habstrinifan says:

        That is a true statement. And much like we do not want to admit it, players on the HABS do not have that comparative push, where results trump intent.

      • rhino514 says:

        …and it´s more than just about the winning. Look at AK after he went o nashville. they were a winning team, but the team atmosphere is not the same as in Mtl.
        We get criticized alot but the truth is mtl is a pretty cool place to play and except for players who can´t handle some extra pressure, most love to play here.

  63. SmartDog says:

    BORED BY THIS THREAD?

    All these old articles aren’t for us. They are for the search engines.
    It’s called “re-purposing content”. They have all of these old articles that are not on the Internet. They want to get them out there so they shove them up online.

    They know we don’t want to see them. And during the playoffs there is REAL hockey to talk about. But that requires more work. Sigh. See you in July.

    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • wjc says:

      Now ‘smart dog’ don’t get your poop in a knot. You know Habs fans like to live in the past. You know how “the Canadiens were set back 10 years because of this or that trade in the 80’s.

      This G.M. in the 1990’s was the worst…blau…blau…..they are just trying to fill a need to make people feel like a winner. You know how fans have won 24 cups…..yada yada, yada.

      The real hockey is being covered to death, what is left to say, that is not just repeating all the ‘talking heads’ on the tube. There is no shortage of opinions, might as well do something original.

      wjc

      • SmartDog says:

        I don’t mind your optimism. (You don’t get a lot of that on here.)

        But you really think HIO fans want these huge 20 year old articles? I’ve skimmed a few but even so I would rather they were gone. They take up so much space… and yeah, I’d rather talk about the Hawks and Bruins honestly. They’re alive. We’re not.

        ————————————-
        Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

  64. Marcusman says:

    So I know this isn’t an original idea but I truly think the Habs should try to sign Jagr this summer. He’s big, scores plays left wing and has a great work ethic. He’d score 40 if he played with #Galchenyuk…I’d pay him 4.5 for two years….

    • wjc says:

      Do everyone a favor, ‘keep your day job’. The G.M. job has been filled thanks for applying. I hear ‘Brett Hull’ is looking for a team also.

      wjc

      • Maksimir says:

        Pretty snarky this morning wjc… haven’t had your coffee yet?

        • Maritime Ron says:

          The vote from here would be no for just 1 simple reason. We don’t need him teaching our young guys the intricacies of online poker…

          • Marcusman says:

            Ya guess so, wouldn’t want our young guys to emulate the #8 points getter of all time in the NHL with a work ethic second to NONE in pro sports.

            http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2013/06/jaromir-jagr-demands-dedication-in-the-gym.html

            And WJC? you can bite me…this forum is kick around ideas and likes about the team not some kind of bullies play ground….just because your mother didn’t hug and tell you she loved you doesn;t give you the right to be an a$$.

            and for the record I was one of the only ones who wanted Gallagher to stick around LAST YEAR….figuring the kids grin and style of play would change the story from markov’s knee and Gomez’s poor play.

          • Maritime Ron says:

            Marcusman
            Yes, Jagr had a great productive past, yet how does he fit in?
            He will be 42 next year, and he’ll still want his 17-18 minutes. We won’t win the Cup with him, and that also takes precious development minutes away from the younger guys.

            His cost this past year was $4.5M. Even if at $3M next year it is not money well spent for the Habs

        • wjc says:

          Snarky eh! I’ll show you snarky…..ZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

          wjc

    • Hobie Hansen says:

      Wouldn’t touch him with a ten foot pole. There’s no way he can play 82 games. He’s still ok if he doesn’t have to skate…

    • habstrinifan says:

      WOW! Yesterday I gave up on the site cause of all the excuses re injuries and today this greets me.

      Please no!

      • The Jackal says:

        Well trini, now that you remind me, the Habs also lost because you and I thought it was ok to watch games again…. damn jinxes!

        ______________________
        Hockey sine stercore tauri.

    • GrosBill says:

      For two years at 4.5 mill. No TY. Have you watched the Bruins since they acquired him? There is no way MB signs this guy for two years, especially at that price. Even at a more reasonable price tag I would still not be interested.

      At this point he can still protect the puck a bit, but he is a turnover machine. He is WAY too slow now. Gets outworked along the boards all the time.

  65. Mike D says:

    @ Jim

    Morning bud. Thanks for providing my morning chuckle today. That Dallas Stars Twitter link you posted was hilarious!

    Also, congrats on your “first” honours. Looks like you caught Gerry nappin! ;-)

    – Honestly yours
    Twitter: @de_benny

  66. Maksimir says:

    Here’s hoping that somehow the Pens steal a couple games from the Bruins before getting knocked out, and beat them up a bit. And the Hawks quickly finish off LA and get some rest to pound Boston…

    anything to keep them from winning another Cup.

  67. Maritime Ron says:

    Hawks dodged the bullet without Duncan Keith last night.
    You had to feel for the Hawks Dman Sheldon Brookbank. He hadn’t played since April 27th, then gets to play 6:50 seconds and made 2 big mistakes that allowed LA to score both their goals.
    Luckily for the Hawks, Quick gifted a goal to Bickel.
    Great character and leadership on that Hawks team.

    You have to wonder what Winnipeg was thinking last year when they let Johnny Oduya get away for a 2nd and 3rd pick this year. His is only 31 and has played almost 21 minutes per game this playoffs including tough PK time

    Crawford was great, and his goalie coach Quebec born Stephane Waite has a contract that terminates with the Hawks in less than a month….perhaps why the Habs have yet to name Carey’s next coach?

    Imagine a Hawks Bruins final? The epitome of:
    Good vs. Evil
    The Light vs. Darkness
    Gabriel vs. Satan ( not Miroslav)

    • Habfan10912 says:

      Huge road win to take control of the series.

    • Cal says:

      With that sh-t Carter pulled on Keith, I am still of the opinion that he should have been suspended. I guess not in the Boston run NHL.

      Nice to see Quick wave at Bickell’s shot, but it was better to see Hossa wire one in high (where you shoot on a goalie so low as Quick).

      • Habfan10912 says:

        Morning Cal. I felt the same way but Keith needed to keep his stick down when he swung hit him. A body shot or leg shot would have been fine. The league almost had to suspend him.

        • Cal says:

          My question is more like why didn’t the “discipline” (hah!) committee look at the WHOLE incident, not just what Keith did. This is another reason why the league is a joke come playoffs time.

      • wjc says:

        You honestly think a slash to the head (face) doesn’t deserve a suspension?

        wjc

    • wjc says:

      Mr. Maritime, you forgot Jealousy vrs envy
      sour grapes vrs. hard to swallow

      wjc

    • Phil C says:

      Rozsival also played great, playing over 25 minutes of even hockey. They essentially pulled him off the trash heap for $2M, half of what the Habs pay Gorges. The Habs could use a couple of defensemen like him, some veteran D men who quietly eat minutes with minimal mistakes.

    • wjc says:

      Winnipeg was thinking, there is sometimes great players available in the 2nd and 3rd round. As they say ‘trade him while he has value, he will be 32 years old next year and Winnipeg needs prospects for the future.

      Thinking ahead a couple of years and the draft is the way to get cheaper players to build around.

      wjc

      • Maritime Ron says:

        Granted, but it’s not as if the Jets have anything close to a solid back end. And yes, sometimes some 2nd/3rd rounders work out, yet they are usually projects that may show up in year 4-6 after being drafted

  68. wjc says:

    Wow! When you focus on one game (two teams) you notice things.

    According to Montreal HIO standards all 5 goals last night were ‘SOFT”

    Soft goals, that is all you hear all year. But, when you venture outside of the Montreal domain, you notice that other goalies let in so called ‘soft’ goals.

    I counted 5 in one game. Further I will go on record as saying ‘Bickell’ is a flash in the pan, and anyone signing him to big money long term will be disappointed.

    wjc

    • HardHabits says:

      Which is why I am confident the Habs won’t be signing Bickell.

    • Lafleurguy says:

      Bickell has similarities to Dustin Penner, but if the dedication he possessed to get through 4 AHL seasons is an predictive indicator, he may become more consistent than Penner. Penner’s teammate on the 2007 champion Ducks team (them’s not a duck dynasty, Slim, they’s ain’t even mighty no more) Andy McDonald had to retire due to post-concussion syndrome.

      “May you live in interesting times.”

    • habstrinifan says:

      Disagree re Bickell. I think it’s the other way around.. He is just about ready to impose his game on the league… become a star power forward. He wont score 50 goals but he will make a team way better all around and contribute in many areas.

  69. Habfan10912 says:

    Good morning. Burly’s streak is over!


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