Liveblog: Another shootout L

Luongo

Man, this is getting tired.
Your Montreal Canadiens blew a 3-0 lead on home ice.
Yes, they’re playing the Cup finalists.
But still …

Shootout:

DD: Glove save on backhand

Hodgson: Goal shelf

Max-Pac: High and wide

Kesler: Save

Cammalleri: Save

994 Comments

  1. andykirstein says:

    Gauthier !!!!!
    Krys Burch!!!!!!!!!
    FLA gave up a fourth rounder for fudge sakes………………(I know, the 4th round is where you pluck those little Swiss guys from. My Bad!
    Who are you kidding, we got Darche, Nokileinen and whoever, on our 4th line (aka…”Energy” line) Terrors to say the least!
    Relax Rumplestilkin, when you awake from your Coma, it will be a nice little mans league again.
    In the mean time Stephen Gionta is available, and hey, when can even call him the Pocket Rocket.
    I’m now in Hong Kong and your killing me!
    Pierre,honestly, what do you want to be when you grow up?
    This just ain’t working for you and for us…….

  2. Chris F says:

    What will it take for Martin to be let go?
    Seriously, do we have to lose 10 in a row?
    What will it take?
    3-0 at home, with the season this team has had so far, and to blow it in yet another shoot out.
    Brutal. I wouldn’t feel as bad if we had people running the ship which I felt were capable.
    I truly believe looking at someone’s past as a pre-cursor to the future, yes, people can improve, change, make changes, etc.
    But I don’t see PG and JM doing anything to turn this around.
    Martin has never won anything, never. Doesn’t that mean anything. Besides the Wiz, PG has done nothing except keep the status quo. I would argue the Halak trade was rushed, and Eller was the least we could have had for him.
    I hate how the team is run by two individuals who have zero personality. And…..if they have one, they certainly don’t show it. Bring in a young coach, someone with energy, someone to get the guys going. Their has to be one star in the A, or the entire CHL ready to make the jump.
    3-0 at home, I went to bed after the second. Felt comfortable, but the shorty at the end of the second was horrible, ………ahhhhhhhh, what’s the point.

  3. well i feel for the boys tonight. they played hard, for the most part. growing pains tonight. i wish JM would consider his entire team more when selecting shootout players. He went with pretty well the same group of guys that he did the last few shootout losses. His favourites aren’t working…similar to Plec on the pont on the PP. Give CoLe Ak, Eller even Leblanc a chance. Not the same dudes as before… give your head a shake.
    We don’t score enough goals. All those lost opportunities – at least 2 easy tap ins in the second period, squandered… We thought we had it in the bag. But no. Lack of confidence, and a better team rose to the occasion.
    Maybe Campoli and/or Spacek will change the backend coming up. Talent wise it is uncertain, as i don’t think they would bring alot better, especially Spacek – it is just their veteran presence will change the confidence of the team. Have a lead – man the damns boys. I liked Leblanc up front. We were out coached in the third. What happened to the full court press of the other two periods, that seemed to be working. AK46, Cammy…deserve dismal after the first.
    Subban has been caught in mistake regularly now…other teams just know what to do to oppose him simply press the guy at the start….he has been either overworked or needs a skate sharpening …. I hope st.Denis, Dias will go down, rather than Emelin.. we need the grit. while they both make bonehead mistakes, the physical defensive end is important.
    yes, tough game tonight. Now I have to face the boys at work tomorrow…Beaten by a better team. Kesler’s skill for drawing foul is masterful. 5 on 5 we were almost equal. Hopefully now we will turn a corner, chalk up some wins on a regular basis and sneak into the playoffs. Make it so far, season ends and then make changes. JM. , Gomez,, Cammy….Spacek will retire. A lot about our team i love, however some aspects are hard to swallow game to game.
    LIke a challenged child, you hope for the best night to night, throughout the teams pursuit to succeed. Knowing the task is hard and capability stunted. So thankful for the single point in the standings.

  4. habsfanincalgary says:

    PATHETIC!

    Jacques and Pierre – you remind me of Mario T and Reggie Fool!

    MR. MOLSON. IT’S TIME TO MAKE CHANGES!

    Why would Travis Moen take a shootout when you have a chance to win a game in a shootout? AK has some of the best hands on the team and was nowhere to be seen in the SO.

    Carey, I feel sorry for you man! You can’t win if your team doesn’t score!!!

  5. alwayssunny says:

    Every opposing player feels like they have an extra inch when they play the Habs, and it’s not because the Habs are good looking.

  6. habstrinifan says:

    TSN.CA has a picture which I think they put up to add insult to injury.

    Gill sprawled on all fours! I hate this!

  7. habstrinifan says:

    There was a shrine built by hard working ordinary men. And every Saturday they would fill this shrine to see men play an extraordinary game. And the ordinary men fell in love with them and their game and revered them as extraordinay. And so these players became GIANTS in their minds and in the minds of fans far and wide. And people spoke their name with a gleeful reverence.

    And the GODS looked down from heaven and liked what they saw, for it reminded them of the OLYMPIANS. And so they bestowed swiftness and style, courage and bravery, the imgination of the artist on some players and the ferocity of Ares on others. And they blessed this place and gave it a Greek name, THE FORUM. And they sent muses to reside in the rafters and look over the players.

    But the cult of Yahweh came upon the place and demolished the dream.

  8. the gonk says:

    A look at the history of this team, better coaches with better results have nevertheless been fired. Jacques Martin is not a winner. A change for the sake of change is in order for the head coach. Rationalizing this team is still in the running for the 8th spot without a complete compliment is also a hollow excuse. Gauthier ought to have a hard look in the mirror too. He is answerable for this and I have little confidence he has the courage and the vision to make the right decisions.

  9. besthabschick says:

    In the first two periods when we were winning, we were a team that could win the cup. That’s the problem. After we got a goal scored against us we choked. I wonder why

  10. keepthefaith says:

    Xanax anybody?

  11. Ton says:

    today’s defensive systems are different than years ago. Martin is passe. he cannot implement a forecheck and implementing good strategies in games has also passed him by. the canucks controlled us in possession the second half of game. it was like boys against the men and quite honestly we have the skilled players that could have countered them. this team needs new blood now! get rid of gill, darche, martin, nokia. get a coach with enthusiam (hartley or roy) bring in the missing d’s, blunden, white, and watch what could happen!

    • Ian Cobb says:

      This year is a wash, the rebuilding starts with the trade deadline!
      There are all kinds of season ticket holders wanting to sell their seats.

      • Ton says:

        and this the difference compared to toronto, when molson starts loosing profits I think he will have no choice to act Ian! Any truth to the article regarding the firing of Martin and Gauthier. what do you think?

  12. Peter Young says:

    Let me make it plain at the outset that never before have I called for the firing of a Canadiens coach in almost 60 years of following the team.

    I have the feeling Martin is rubbing his hands in satisfaction now because to him an overtime loss is a satisfactory result, particularly if it comes against one of the top teams. Never mind passion, he is slowly and steadily sucking the very life out of this team.

    Once again he has the team retreat into a defensive shell when it has a good lead and once again that has disastrous results. Why not continue to play the way that got the team the lead, why not continue with what is working. But no, the system it is, and the consequence is predictable.

    Martin doesn’t learn, he doesn’t change, he is stubborn beyond belief. He will take the team down and there is no one who is going to stop him, is there?

    • 4EverHabsFan says:

      Well put-

      I have pretty much decided that I can not sit through any more of JM-coached Habs games. I love the Habs, I supported them even after Trembley ran Roy out the city, but I can not sit and WASTE 2.5 hours of my life to lose in a shootout or get beat by the leagues bottom-feeders…

      Really how can the Molson’s sit by and let this happen? Well I know… $$$$$$ Ka-ching!!

      Anyone here thinking that JM should stay needs to give their heads a shake. The once powerful and respected franchise and most successful franchise in league history, is not looking like an expansion team…

      Can we not take a page out of the Redwings book and build a consistant team?

  13. alwayssunny says:

    When the inferno gets so out of control that Gauthier feels a little steam from wherever it he spends his time – it sure isn’t addressing the fans, we are lucky to get a few blurbs a year – he will pull out his squirtgun and that’s enough to shut people up for a few weeks. He fired Pearn after all. He’s not asleep at the wheel. Went out and got Nokelainen and Blunden. This is a guy who is on top of the situation. He’s taking care of business. I bet his next move is to trade Darche for a conditional 7th round pick. And we have another lazy rich slob backslapping jocksniffing owner who hasn’t sat with the real fans in his whole life, Habs are a toy for him, who says it’s all great. At least until they miss the playoffs and the language he understands starts getting loud.

    • deuce6 says:

      I wouldn’t give you a 7th rounder for Darche…lol

      ——————

      Yes, I’m a Hab fan..Wanna fight about it?

      • alwayssunny says:

        he wouldn’t be playing on any other team in the nhl. not to pick on him, he trys, but it’s a fact. we’ve had useless players on our 4th line for years. we had dandanault for 4 years. signed as a defenseman but after 20 games it was obvious he couldnt play D so they carried him for 4 years and 8 million dollars. And he was Gretzky compared to Darche. But we can’t make room for a guy who can step in when Thornton or Malone, for example, there are dozens more, decide they will run PK or anyone they want and what are you gonna do about it? Nothing. The only team I’ve ever seen in my whole life who thinks that is ok.

  14. habs001 says:

    3rd year in a row very weak on the boards in our end…we have one centre that can score some goals otherwise we are loaded with centres who have minimal goal scoring abilities…

  15. habsolutely416 says:

    cant wait to see what happens tommorrow. i will be checking for updates at least once every hour. hopefully JM and CO are gone. some trades would be nice too.

    ill be in the slot ;)

  16. Ian Cobb says:

    DOINK DOINK DOINK

    How to win! REFUSE penalties against them.

    We have 6 goals scored on us with the PP.
    We have 1 goal for us with the pp in 30 games.
    3 goals to 0.—- Final 3 goals to 4 = DOINK again & again.

    I think I am the DOINK for watching this stupidity.

  17. HardHabits says:

    I guess this ruins any hope of Martin moving upstairs to take on the role of GM.

  18. mws says:

    I’ve been a Habs fan since the ’60s’ and right now, I think I’m done. They should never have been in a shootout, but since they are, put that little egomaniac, all for himself “look at me, I’m a star” Cammalleri out there JM. You know, the high-priced (no offense Carey – wait! there is in fact, no offense) spread who couldn’t put the puck in the net if his life depended on it. Way to go JM. I think I AM done.

  19. Frank2468 says:

    Man this team stinks, can’t score in a shootout, can’t hold a lead, can’t score on the Power Play, but according to Martin the Habs are a puck possession team, what a crock. This coach and GM need to go and now. If I’m Carey and PK and the organization doesn’t fire the coach and GM when contracts come up they could and probably would make tracks as fast as they could, I know I would. Geoff if your listening you could end up losing your star goalie and your up and coming defense man.

  20. Barts says:

    “S’appelle growing pains.” – JM in his press conference tonight…I DON’T KNOW WHETHER TO LAUGH OR CRY.

  21. Cam_1 says:

    At this point there is no to blame but one person…yes the team sucks…yes Jacques Martin sucks…yes Pierre Gauthier sucks…yes Bob Gainey sucks……..but the only person in power only cares about financial success…the only person in power gave all these clowns a vote of confidence…just shows me how doomed the team really is…I agree with person who roled down his window and yelled “Molson ! Fix your team !!!”

    Okkkkaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy….fix your fawking team already !!!!!!! I mean Fawk man…fawk…whats it gonna take…..fix the damn team !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  22. Habsolutely says:

    Theo with 40 saves to beat the Broons. Unbelievable how Talon has turned around the Cats.

    • TomNickle says:

      I’d be waiting a while longer before putting them on a pedestal. Their future is bright, but not because of all of the free agent signings.

      • Habsolutely says:

        I’m not putting them on a pedestal, I’m giving credit where credit is due. And PS, the free agent signings have been awesome for them.

        • TomNickle says:

          You’re judging too early. They’re very thin on defense, have very little depth at forward and have what reasonable people would call questionable goaltending.

          In addition, they’re playing in the worst division in hockey.

          Things look good, but I wouldn’t say Tallon has turned them around just yet. Atlanta was in a similar position last season.

          • Habsolutely says:

            40 saves against the hottest team in hockey Tom, try to pay attention. You’re just another prototypical HIO poster who hates the Panthers because you’re shoveling snow and they have Palm trees outside. Petty, and jealous.

          • TomNickle says:

            Haha. Couldn’t be further from the truth. But whatever works for ya.

          • Jan_pronounced_Yan says:

            I was one who thought they would be terrible with the free agent signings they made. However, they seem to have assembled an actual scoring line and have a bunch of blue collar guys that will work hard. Tallon has essentially bought all his young draft picks a couple of years of development time.

            Their defense isn’t so bad either. Campbell, Kulikov, Jovanovski and Gudbranson isn’t terrible for a top 4.

            I think they will come back down to Earth, but they are definitely playing good hockey right now. And Tallon amassed such a wealth of picks the last 2 years that they will be pretty decent when Markstrom is the everyday goalie.

  23. besthabschick says:

    Anyone else see how f-in pathetic that game was? Winning 3-0 and we choke. Got a goal scored on us and then everything is over. What a pathetic, coaching routine. How bout the Molsons (coolest people in mtl) take a look at the team that Martin is coaching and the teams he has coached, and gets him the f outta here. We are the best team in the history of hockey. This is a joke to the fans and the org.

  24. 4m3y2j says:

    When it became 3-2 I thought,letVancouver win this and then PLEASE GOG PLEASE allow this to be the catalyst that finally convinces Geoff Molson that it is time for Jacques Martin and PG to GOOOOOOOO!!
    Honestly,what more do they need top see?
    you can see that Cole hates the system.He has played with winners and knows what it takes.WAAAAAKE UPPPPPPP!!!

  25. Nina76 says:

    Great post, exactly my feelings they cannot fight their way out of a wet paper bag………………I AM SICK OF IT. I wish the people that who have tickets would stay away from the games but Molson won’t care anyway.I also don’t believe that Martin, GM & Molson does not watch these games but this has been denied

  26. doogie says:

    Send LeBlanc to Hamilton, the kid can’t skate and keep up. Another boneheaded move by this administration.

  27. doogie says:

    Ok, other than Randy Carlyle, who else is out there?

    Patrick Roy
    Clement Jodoin
    Brian Kilrea
    Doug Gilmour
    Guy Carbonneau
    Larry Robinson
    Bobby Smith
    Bob Hartley
    Jacques Lemaire

  28. otter649 says:

    Habs must have watched The Sabres last night on how to blow 3-0 leads…….

  29. durocher says:

    I’m tired of the losing, I’m tired of the mediocrity. I don’t know why Molson expressed confidence in JM or PG. Both should go. Injuries or not, if your players repeatedly can’t protect a lead, win at home, or score on the PP, you have a problem.

    12 goals for on the PP, 5 shorthanded surrendered on the PP. That is just sad.

    • 4EverHabsFan says:

      Molson’s care about one thing… It isn’t a shiney Cup… it has dollar signs all over it! Just as bad at the Teacher’s & MLSE in Toronto…

      You don’t need to put a winner on the ice when the seats are full every night!!

  30. HabinBurlington says:

    Perhaps the shootout is enthralling for JM, he spends all game writing notes, then the ref says hey can you write a note for me? Of course JM isn’t righting down 3 names, he is just doodling. So the same 3 players keep coming out for shootouts. Tonight was a little more complex with Gio out.

  31. Feraco says:

    This team looks eerily familiar to the team that Martin left in Florida. Play with no emotion…but 1 point out of playoff spot, tons of young guys and no scoring from Cammy…can it only get better?

    I say yes

  32. EastCoastHab says:

    I honestly have chest pains…. when is enough enough?

  33. habsperspective says:

    Theoretically you could lose all 82 games in a shootout, and potentially make the playoffs in a weak year.

  34. Habfan4lfe says:

    Martin hasn’t got a clue who he should have on the ice and he never has. He relies on non-producing players. I don’t care what they are getting paid. You put the guys on the ice that have been effective for you. DD should not be centering the lines, it should be Eller. Eller is every bit as good as Desharnais, he’s fast, smart and good with the puck, more so than DD. DD constantly gets swept away. But he insists on putting him in and not giving Eller a fair chance. I think the staff is blind or Martin is daft but it’s ridiculous to see games that could and should have been handled better. God help us when whimpy Spacek gets back. God Markov must be laughing inside somewhat eh? If he’s lucky he will return with a new coach. Why did he not give Leblanc a chance? Oh right he’s a young kid. Go with your stars. Ya.

  35. HabinBurlington says:

    My night is nearly complete, I finally got the forbidden message from HI/O. Now I get to watch my Steelers blow it agains the Browns. A very satisfying evening…..

  36. alwayssunny says:

    Can’t wait for Martin’s post game love-in. Nobody will ask anything of any substance and we will get the same bs. I can’t believe Martin had the gall after the last game to say they lost because guys weren’t willing to pay the price and go to the net. This is a guy, along with the idiots above him, who has watched his team get run over on countless occasions and not blinked an eye. How about giving us a player that makes the guys feel like it is ok to go to the net without worrying about getting their face punched in? Dont talk to me about wasting a roster spot for a 4 minute player, ive heard that idiocy for years. Have a look at any of the 4th liner’s stats before you start that stuff.

  37. showey47 says:

    Beavis and butthead,
    now playing on MTV.
    Can either speak french?

  38. hoffska says:

    Martin: Ref are you not going to ask me for my shootout list?
    Ref: No need, we all know you are going to choose the same 3 shooters you always do.
    Martin: Ah very good then.

    I wonder what it is like to have ZERO imagination. Everything in JM world must be all one shade of grey. Boaring and Unimaginative, just the way his team plays. Please fire J.Martin right now before he looses us any more games. For F***k sakes when the guys you choose over and over for the shoot out have not scored any shoot out goals, PICK SOMEONE ELSE!!!
    UNBELIEVEABLE!!!!

    • idle says:

      LMAO… last game he picks Moen and everyone on here goes bonkers…

      • hoffska says:

        I’m not talking about moen, or just changing one guy in the shootout. Change all 3 because no one is scoring on shootouts. Why not try leblanc? or right JM thinks all rookies are babies that need to be coddled and nursed from his tit with 4 mins a game.
        Awesome.

  39. LL-not the hockey player ;) says:

    Great goalie in search of teammates that can score.

    I don’t know what JM can do to teach supposed pros how to shoot.

    PG has work to do.

  40. RS says:

    We’re okay, we’re just lurking around, just outside a playoff spot. As long as we hang around here until we get Larry Robinson back, then we can make a run at the playofs.

    Wait a second, must of had a few too many pops. Markov? Oh, we’re doomed.

    Emelin is fun though.

  41. UK-HAB says:

    #SackJacques has a ring to it no?

  42. youngwun says:

    At least we are 1 point behind for 7th spot. The only good thing we can say and thats huge !

  43. arrow says:

    Well we were all hoping for a WIN! It looked promising at 3-0!
    But another shootout LOSS!
    I feel bad for Price! We need to move on from this! The team needs to “take a walk and don’t look back” It is time for team bonding!
    GO HABS GO!

    PK

  44. moggs says:

    How about all the morons blaming this loss on Price…give your head a shake. Check the special teams!

  45. habsperspective says:

    Everything starts and ends with the Markov situation.

    Markov, would of brought us a power play, and lead protection.

    Im still amazed with the absolute lack of offence, which Martin cant score himself, has made this a .500 “points” team considering the AHL defence core we have. Including Subpar.

    No coach could do any better with the cast this team has this season.

    Management is all to blame. Period.

    • Habby says:

      It’s like everything that can go wrong does go wrong. We get some offense from our defence, but our defence can’t live up to a top team. It’s disappointing for us fans and for the team but they’ve got to learn and move on. If this season can be used as a learning opportunity to do much better in the future then I guess it’s a price we can pay, right?

      Also, the big guys need to wake up. They make up most of our cap hit but they aren’t putting up the points to justify their salaries. With the injuries we’ve got you can’t rely on your defencemen to win you games. A fourth goal would’ve helped us out a lot tonight.

      The drive for 25 is alive!

      • habsperspective says:

        Hopefully you can learn from this going forward, however because everything is dissected to the degree it is today. This shapes the team going forward/. When they fired Carbo, 3 years ago the entire team was different. And its fair to say if they brought in Youppi at this point it would be a completely different team in 3 years again.

        Firing the coach almost suggests a rebuild. Washington, and Carolina are great examples of that. Its not the answer.

        How many quality point shots did you see from our team tonight, or this year for that matter. I bet close to half the goals in the league today are from rebounds, or redirects from the point. If we had any sort of that presence, things would be much different.

        • Habby says:

          I’m with you on not firing the coach. Firing him will please many many people, but if the team continues to suck then what? Fire the GM and everyone else? The only people who can really change the fortunes of the team are the people who play for the team–the players. Winning games is their responsibility. Yes, the coach is important. But think about sports where the coach can’t participate. They train you and help calm your nerves…and then what? You go out there and you give it your best. These guys need to give it their best. Not showing up for a game or three isn’t going to help you move up in the standings.

          Ultimately we’re going to get screwed if we tie for points with a team heading to the playoffs because they’ll have more regulation wins. It’s such a tight race any way and here we are blowing 3-0 leads and letting precious points slip away. Does this not bother these men who wear the CH?

          The only reason we go for star goalies is because the rest of our team sucks. Even when we went to the ECF we weren’t scoring much. And that’s how we ended up exiting. Had we started scoring more even in the 3rd round we would’ve had a shot at the Cup. Niemi was pretty bad at stopping the puck anyways.

          Coming back to my first point I have to wonder if this is why they don’t bury Gomez in the minors. If he’s gone and the team sucks even more then what? There’s no one willing to come here to help us out anyways. And Hamilton’s cabinet is bare until next year at the earliest. Unless the entire organization decides to play with more passion I’m sure we’re in for a nasty, long season.

          The drive for 25 is alive!

          • habsperspective says:

            Star goalies, yes. Its this team Achilles, I really would have to look at the last 10-15 Stanley Cup winners, to see how many of them were all star. Other then Brodeur or Roy, maybe none. Unless you count Thomas and Hasek. I could be wrong.

            But yes it brings up a legacy of trying to achieve from the goalie forward. Maybe theres just that much pressure playing for Montreal, and only the most strongest of minds prevail. Grit players can go along way in a market like Montreal. How many people here would consider having Bergie back at this point. More precisely, on the point. But yet, our strongest still slide for some length too.

            Really, as ive said before no Gomez, no Markov, no Spatch(which should prove to alot of his bashers, his irreplaceable value), Cammis absence, to go along with Max getting sidetracked for a week and Subbans uncertainty. Its amazing they are this close still.

  46. Habsbill24 says:

    Martin sounding like an idiot in the post game again. Completely clueless.

  47. twilighthours says:

    What is left to say?
    Luongo with three softies,
    Still we sh!t the bed.

    —————————————————————–
    http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Apostrophes

  48. Habs71 says:

    dont worry boys jacques martans got everything figured out in his notebook

  49. Neutral says:

    Lets face it the better team won

  50. RickoIII says:

    I am pissed. I am so tired of this team choking. We need some heart and soul. We get a total of 18 shots against Columbus and a huge 20 against Vancouver. I feel for Carey, stupid penalties, not sure how it is they haven’t figured out the best defense is a good offence. Enough with this preserve the lead at any cost mentality. I really hope they fire Martin as we need somebody with emotion behind the bench. I would love to see Patrick behind the bench now that we don’t have a chance at Muller. Also, a little toughness wouldn’t hurt. Even if we scraped our way into the playoffs, we’ll be pushed and punched out of them pretty quick. Help – SOS

    Ricko

  51. deuce6 says:

    Did anyone see us blow a 3-0 lead? That was awesome…. :)

    ——————

    Yes, I’m a Hab fan..Wanna fight about it?

  52. tony d says:

    Our boys were owned in most of the 3rd and all of the OT. They looked totally lost and PK is just brutal to watch this year, can’t figure out what’s going on with this group. They can’t even be called a bubble team anymore with this kind of play.

  53. chemic says:

    and now the hater crowd is back…..

    what about eller who takes an asbolut stupid penaltie because he cant hit proper? what about decision to sit weber instead of steady freddy? what about those player mistakes when we once again get a shortie? what about the weak play of subban on the hodgson goal? what about luongo who starting to do his job and robs cole, cammy and pac? what about the stupid crowd who start chanting 17 minutes to go?

    Martin mistakes……..not tonight, haters, not tonight! im drunk, cant write anymore, done with this s**t

  54. Habfan10912 says:

    Good thing he speaks French.

  55. habsperspective says:

    So players are compensated on there past performances, hence when you buy an overpriced ticket. Your also paying for past performances. Problem is, where does it equal out. Not in the fans mind, only in the capitalism of the product.


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