Explaining the zebras

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Still puzzled by some of the calls and non-calls on Saturday night?
This might help you understand.

•  •  •

A great Comment from Un Canadien Errant:

A moral victory for the Canadiens tonight, instead of the genuine article. They lost due to their own lack of discipline, and the sharp-eyed referees made every call except the first one, which should have gone against the Rangers.

Early in the game, Mike Blunden stepped off the Canadiens’ bench and laid a solid hit on Brandon Dubinsky, who was carrying the puck at the time. Play continued into the Canadiens’ zone, where Ryan Callaghan caught up to Mr. Blunden and started to fight with him. A scrum ensued, with other players grabbing each other, notably Hal Gill with Brandon Dubinsky, and Petteri Nokelainen with Michael Sauer. When it was all sorted out, the penalties evened out, except for the Canadiens receiving a minor for too many men on the ice, and another minor for obstruction. This was a clearly blown call by the referees. We can’t really argue the too many men penalty, but the obstruction call is questionable. If Mr. Blunden can’t throw a clean bodycheck on the puck carrier, he will have a short career in the NHL, since he won’t stick strictly on his pugilistic skills, as can be seen on YouTube and as he demonstrated again tonight.

The fact that there was no instigator penalty called on Ryan Callaghan is a travesty. He skated from the neutral zone to deep in Canadiens territory to catch up to Mr. Blunden, dropped his gloves first, and went after him in obvious retaliation for his clean (I want to stress this) check on Mr. Dubinsky. If anything, Mr. Shanahan could use this sequence to illustrate Rule 46.11 in one of his training videos. Obviously, based on tonight’s game as well as any game the Canadiens play against the Bruins, the consequences of this infraction are so severe, namely an instigating minor penalty, a major penalty for fighting and a ten-minute misconduct, that referees are loath to call it. This non-call was pivotal in the game, since it provided the Rangers with a 5 on 3 powerplay, whereas it probably should have only been coincidental minors. The Rangers used this two-player advantage to gain the lead that they would never relinquish.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26336

The Braying Asses on Hockey Night in Canada are perennially prophesying the end of the NHL, the end of hockey, the end of Western Civilization if the instigator rule is not repealed. If only they removed their heads from each other’s colon, they could observe that it is effectively a technicality on the books not to be enforced, like insider-trading or false-advertising statutes.

The good side of the story, which provides the moral victory, is that the Canadiens never quit, and this game could have gone either way. They were creative and dangerous around the Rangers’ net, hit two posts, and threatened all night. Erik Cole and Mike Cammalleri pinged the posts, and seem to be getting the hang of each other. All summer we predicted they would play together, only we thought it would be with Plekanec at centre, and the two do seem to be a good combination.

I paid attention to Jaro Spacek and Andrei Kostitsyn, since they’ve been a bit of a hobby-horse for me, and I wanted to observe their positive contributions. Andrei made it easy by scoring a nice goal, and by seeming to be hungry for the puck. Mr. Spacek also played well, and I was impressed to see him absorb a few bodychecks yet remain standing, as opposed to imploding or suffering a controlled collapse or spontaneously combusting, as he did last season and during the Winnipeg game earlier this season. I admit that he is effective, but I still advocate that Alexei Emelin should be given his icetime.

Maybe the icetime should be subtracted from another player though, and I’m thinking of PK Subban. He has been up and down this year, sometimes getting caught being too aggressive and/or trying to do too much, but tonight was another hiccup. I was mildly impressed that he made simple plays, and on the powerplay also kept it simple and effective, choosing to make easy passes and blasting a few shots at net. Just as I was formulating this thought, he skated up to Henrik Lunddqvist and braked hard, giving him a snow shower. He earned two minutes for unsportsmanlike conduct, thwarting the Canadiens’ comeback attempt.

I know PK is a work in progress, and is still young and has time to mature. I want the coaches and veteran D-men to work with him and get him to understand that he doesn’t need to be an ‘agitator’, that he has too much talent to waste his energies that way. I want him to play hard and tough, to hit opponents cleanly, and to use his creativity as a break in between the majority of the time when he makes the simple, easy, effective play. I want him to stop needling opponents and jawing at them, to stop the little hooks and slashes, followed by his head-swivel-to-the-referee-with-a-full-shrug-palms-up-plee, to stop embellishing when he gets (often) deservedly pushed or shoved or popped in the mouth. Is it too early in the season for his Jacques Martin-approved “Cure de Jouvence sur la Galerie de la Presse”™ ?

303 Comments

  1. HardHabits says:

    Non-Violent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg.

    Four components of Non-Violent Communication:
    1. observation
    2. feeling
    3. needs
    4. request

    Two parts of NVC:
    1. expressing honesty through the four components
    2. receiving empathically through the four components

    =================================================
    Communication That Blocks Compassion

    Moralistic Judgments:
    In the world of judgments, our concern centers on WHO “IS” WHAT.
    Analyses of others are actually expressions of our own needs and values.
    Classifying and judging people promote violence.

    Making Comparisons:
    Comparisons are a form of judgment.

    Denial Of Responsibility:
    Our language obscures awareness of personal responsibility.

    We deny responsibility for our actions when we attribute their cause to:
    Vague, impersonal forces
    Our condition, diagnosis, personal or psychological history
    The actions of others
    The dictates of authority
    Group pressure
    Institutional policies, rules, and regulations
    Gender roles, social roles, or age roles
    Uncontrollable impulses

    We can replace language that implies lack of choice with language that acknowledges choice.
    We are dangerous when we are not conscious of our responsibility for how we behave, think, and feel.

    Other Forms Of Life-Alienating Communication:
    We can never make people do anything.
    Thinking based on “who deserves what” blocks compassionate communication.
    Life-alienating communication has deep philosophical and political roots.

    =================================================

    When we combine observation with evaluation, people are apt to hear criticism.
    The Highest Form Of Human Intelligence is to observe with evaluating

    =================================================

    The first component of NVC is to observe without evaluating; the second component is to express how we are feeling.

    • Chris says:

      Sorry man…I routinely score 95-100% “Judging” in the Meyers-Briggs personality test so observing without evaluating just isn’t in my mental make-up.

      :-P

    • Everlasting1 says:

      The highest form of intelligence(mental and emotional)/communication/compassion goes beyond the mind. You are not your mind, it is separate from who you truly are, and more often that not, your mind runs you. Take it back and stop the incessant thinking, reacting.
      Read The Power Of Now :)

      ——————————————————————-
      “And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.” – Deuteronomy 2:33

      “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

      • G-Man says:

        “You are not your mind, it is separate from who you truly are, and more often that not, your mind runs you.”

        Funniest post of the week. Thanks, E1, I can always count on you for truly bizarre reasoning.

        _____________________________________________________

        When in doubt, blame PP.

    • Shane1313 says:

      I like this post.
      Im talking the non-violent** communication one*

    • Tony McLean says:

      You’re sucking all the air out of the room again.

      ——————————–
      Bring Larry Robinson home.

  2. AK_PK_Usay says:

    WOW, what’s wrong with this website, after the LONG Price vs cinderela Halak, its now weather or not PK is really that good…

    YES, he is, he’s by leaps and bounds our best D right now.

    He plays against the best the opposition has to offer for a ton of minutes.

    When they lose this website loses half its IQ, and when the team is showing promise, they lose the other half.

    Mods are usefull for adds or whatnot, we need a filtering system, ie, show/hide list. So users you came to agree aren’t your cup of tea can be removed, and instead of sorting through 500 comments, you get to read 20 decent ones.

    • HardHabits says:

      Then nobody would get to read this gem.

    • avatar_58 says:

      Um. No. I love PK with the fire of a thousand suns but I hate censorship more. Let people say what they want and reply with a thought out counterpoint.

      That’s debate in the free world baby

    • Tony McLean says:

      You can’t even spell Cinderella.

      How many rounds has Price won? Are you saying his three year home losing streak in the playoffs was impressive? Forgotten why Jaro was conscripted? Twice?

      Huet, Aebischer and yes Carey Price.
      ——————————–
      Bring Larry Robinson home.

  3. Some great discussion on HIO tonight. Wish it was like this every night.

    ______________________________
    Seriousfan09 has started a Movember team named McPhee’s Irregulars. Donate to him, or me or the team to raise money for a great cause!
    http://mobro.co/AndrewBerkshire

    • Bill says:

      I dunno, all the love in the air is disorienting and strange. Everybody’s high off that extra hour of sleep or something.

      I just like consistency. Looking forward to the next one-goal victory or loss that brings out everyone’s true colours.

      Full Breezer 4 Life

    • Clay says:

      It’s nice to have a loss you can feel good about for a change though – might have something to do with the mood. I know I was disappointed they lost that game, but proud of the work ethic and grit shown. I still had a big smile on my face after the loss, which is rare.
      Methinks Gomez may be out of a job if this continues… ;)

      __________________________
      Anyway, I’ve never been captain in 16 years in the NHL. But that didn’t stop me being a leader in my own way.
      Guy Lafleur

  4. Neutral says:

    Good game coming up tuesday – the kids from Edmonton are in town.
    Habs had better stay out of the penality box – or the kids will make them pay.

    • Jim Edson says:

      Don’t know about that saw the Coyotes make them look very ordinary last night in Phoenix.

      The Edmonton D is quite ordinary and prone to panic driven mistakes.

      ———————————————————————-
      …..My empire is crumbling, my international sponsors are deserting me, my authority is questioned, I am held in contempt wherever I go.

      Who am I: Barak Obama or Gary Bettman.

    • Everlasting1 says:

      You can say that about any given game. Penalties are often the difference maker in far too many games. The refs are calling everything these days it seems, although not always justified.

      ——————————————————————-
      “And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.” – Deuteronomy 2:33

      “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

      • Jim Edson says:

        Believe it or not there were few penalties last night and they were quite evenly spread out 4 minors each.

        The Coyotes just skated with Edmonton and made the kids look exactly like kids!

        ———————————————————————-
        …..My empire is crumbling, my international sponsors are deserting me, my authority is questioned, I am held in contempt wherever I go.

        Who am I: Barak Obama or Gary Bettman.

        • Everlasting1 says:

          8 penalties is ‘few’? Sounds like average.

          ——————————————————————-
          “And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.” – Deuteronomy 2:33

          “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

    • Trisomy 21 says:

      I don’t know, I played this game on my NHL 2012 be a GM and we lost. shut out in fact.
      I don’t have a good feeling ’bout this one

  5. Chris says:

    What the heck, I’ll take a stab on it based on a conversation I had with a goaltender friend. Context: goaltender friend was highly ranked (he was a roomate of Manny Malhotra’s for the Mississauga Reps in AAA) going into his OHL draft year but decided to pass on it as he felt he was too small to make it in the NHL and went for a degree instead. He’s now got a PhD and is doing pretty well in life, so good choice!

    Anyways, his feeling is that the slapshot is generally a poor choice. As a goaltender, you want to be able to see the puck. When a guy winds up for a slapshot like Subban does, it gives the goaltender all the time in the world to lock on to the puck and he can pick it up coming off the stick. From the distance Subban is shooting from, he’s got to hit an absolutely perfect shot to have any chance of beating the goaltender, as they can usually react quick enough to make the save from that distance.

    The friend always said the shot he feared the most was the Joe Sakic- or Mark Messier-esque snap shots, which have little wind-up, as they were often almost as hard as a slap-shot but difficult for the goaltender to see.

    Subban has been blocked (18) or missed the net (16) almost as many times as he hits the net (41), which indicates to me that he would be a bit better served to take something off the wind-up and get the shot off quicker. It’s not such a big issue on the one-timers, where you can wind-up all you want, but it absolutely is an issue when he’s trying to get a shot off on his own. Think back to Subban’s goals last season…almost all of them were off one-timers. Other than the power play, I’d like to see him throw some variety in there (wrist shots, snap shots, intentional misses off the backboards for rebounds) than just keep blasting as hard as he can.

    • I can’t remember where I read it, but I feel like it’s a common cited stat that something like 80% of goals that are the result of straight shots without tips or rebounds are wrist shots. Accuracy and a quick release being the most deadly combo for a goal scorer (Ovechkin or Sakic as you cited being famous for both).

      That said, defensemen use slapshots more often because they’re looking for rebounds or tips a large percentage of the time. Although P.K. does tend to go for the perfect shot often simply because he has that capability.

      Essentially I think people need to just be patient with Subban’s production. He had 3 rough games in a row and since then has been dominant to brilliant. Boxcar numbers will come in time. Kind of like how everyone was on Cole until recently.

      ______________________________
      Seriousfan09 has started a Movember team named McPhee’s Irregulars. Donate to him, or me or the team to raise money for a great cause!
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      • Chris says:

        Subban doesn’t go for rebounds…his shot selection is actually quite poor for an NHL defenceman. But he’s young, and that will get a lot better with maturity.

        We have a guy like Subban on my team (obviously much less skilled, but bear with me). Every single shot is a rocket aimed at the top corner. The problem comes when you are trying to screen the goalie…shots like that are just lethal. You don’t want any part of it as a forward. He plays on another team with a couple of the linesman (Scott Driscoll is one, can’t remember the other) from the NHL. Driscoll (who has an absolute cannon of a shot by the way…you should see how huge that guy is on the ice) took my buddy aside after one of their games and told him that he’s got to rein it in if he wants any of the forwards to set up a screen, else he’s liable to kill somebody with his shot.

        So with Subban’s massive slap-shots, one thing to keep in mind is that we’re always complaining here about the lack of traffic, but be honest…would you screen the goalie when you see that unholy wind-up? I’d be bailing before you could even think “Subbang!!!”.

        • I don’t think that’s entirely true. A defenseman with a poor shot selection doesn’t lead the league in PP goals. He goes for the top corner more often than some because he’s one of very few players who can make that shot consistently, but he does shoot for rebounds fairly often. And quite a few of his goals last year were low shots.

          ______________________________
          Seriousfan09 has started a Movember team named McPhee’s Irregulars. Donate to him, or me or the team to raise money for a great cause!
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          • Chris says:

            Again, I disagree.

            Nicklas Lidstrom does not score as many PP goals as Subban did most years, but he is far more important because what he does do is get his shots low and on net, generating rebounds for his forwards to cash in. Subban did lead the league in PP goals with 9 last season, but he only had 9 PP assists.

            Contrast that with a guy like James Wisniewski, another noted PP shooter. He had 7 PP goals, but another 24 PP assists, many of them generated off the big rebounds his shots generated.

            Many of us noted that Subban subtly changed his game around Christmas last season, getting shots off quicker, and his period of success followed. I suspect he is struggling a little bit with teams now having a book of what he does well and how to counteract it now, but he is a smart enough kid to adapt and realize his great potential.

          • I don’t buy the struggling because the book is out on him stuff. That kind of thing is just narrative to explain results. If he was struggling he wouldn’t be getting so many shots on net.

            Comparing Lidstrom to Subban is a bit unfair I would say. Lidstrom is after all the best defenseman of his generation.

            The Wiz comparison is more apt but Wiz also had 1:30 per game on the PP more than Subban, over 100 minutes more total for the season. So his production is going to be higher.

            And HH, as for Subban making poor plays on the PP, that’s perception but not reality. Check out Chris Boucher’s site boucherscouting.com

            Subban actually has the highest risk/reward ratio of anyone on the team on the PP, making over 8 good plays for every bad one.
            ______________________________
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          • Chris says:

            Well, Lidstrom is the best of his generation for a lot of reasons, and one of the big ones I’ve seen time and time again from scouting reports is that he is perhaps the best PP shooter in the world. Babcock used to rave about how Lidstrom will often shoot without ever looking at the puck; he’s so good that he knows where it is, and he wants to keep his head up through the shot so that he can get the puck on net.

            Not a bad guy to watch and take pointers. :)

          • Lidstrom is just ridiculous. He’s one of those guys that if you’re not paying attention, you can not notice and he’ll end up with 3 assists and a +5 rating. He’s not flashy, he’s just the most efficient player in the game.

            Like you said, his puck awareness is off the charts and it allows him to rarely get into bad situations. You almost never see Lidstrom take a big hit because of his instincts. Just brilliant.

            ______________________________
            Seriousfan09 has started a Movember team named McPhee’s Irregulars. Donate to him, or me or the team to raise money for a great cause!
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          • HardHabits says:

            I am not such a stats geek. I do follow the basic stuff that appears at NHL.COM but generally I go by what I see on the ice and by a combination of what my gut and mind agrees upon. I am still trying to figure out EnAttendantLesNordiques methodology but I like the analyses of his number crunching all the same

            Getting back to this PK thing and the headline guest comment. My assertion is that UCe’s comments convey a lot of empathy and understanding on the subject matter of PK and are more worthy of considering than not and shouldn’t be so easily dismissed. UCe didn’t lambaste PK but rather offered observations and expressed what he felt would be some encouraging steps to ensure that PK makes progress.

          • Chris says:

            HH: I’m not crazy about the scoring chances stat that Olivier and others are starting to put together because I think it is too rigid a definition for something that is inherently subjective.

            I think the various stats that have been developed are interesting, but you are right to go with your gut at the end of the day. Corsi numbers and Qualcomp and all the rest are great, but even a lot of the NHL guys aren’t 100% sold on all these numbers.

            From what I’ve been told, the NHL teams have a slew of other stats that they use, including scoring chances, but they don’t publish them because only officially published statistics can be used in arbitration cases. It would be interesting to see what the hockey minds have come up with versus we mere fans.

          • Tony McLean says:

            I don’t think he’s aiming, he’s just trying to hit it as hard as he can which is why most of them end up on the glass or on the netting *above* the glass. Watch FrankenChara, he seems to have tamed his shots since last spring, favouring accuracy over 106 mph fusillades. Another example of PK’s youth. He’ll learn.
            ——————————–
            Bring Larry Robinson home.

        • HardHabits says:

          @Chris: IMO Subban is trying to do to much on his own. The PP last night when took like 5 shots was a glaring example of his complete lack of creativity and over dependence on his killer app, the telegraphed golf swing.

          Markov is no god. Neither is Wisneiwski. They both are way more creative than Subban is right now. As is Weber. Moreso Subban is still making those miscues not due to his over exuberance but due to his risk taking in trying to do it alone.

          He has to IMO start using his team mates and making plays and passes. If he does that his shot will be a a boon. Right now it’s a liability.

    • LL says:

      Yeah but what I really want to know, is if he thought Price was “elite”? :)

      • Chris says:

        He really liked the way Price played. Back when Price was stinking out the joint and lost his spot to Halak, he was still insistent that Price would be a good NHL goalie because of his crease movement. He did agree with my assertion that Price’s puck-tracking was pretty suspect at times, but that concern has disappeared the past season and a bit.

        As for elite, what the heck…we’re in the era where everybody is special so feel free to call one-third of the league elite, one-third stars and one-third normal guys. Whatever floats people’s boat. :)

      • Tony McLean says:

        Nope. Look at his stats. How many playoff rounds has he won? Hey, the hyenas are still breaking Halak’s b@lls, what’s Price done? I’m really tired of people showing their gratitude to Jaro by dumping on him as if he exposed the god Price’s mortality or something. Speaks volumes really. For a guy with so much hype Price is a disappointment so far. What are you going to say when Carey doesn’t deliver this year? That Halak stinks? How long will people use that sham argument? It’s about Price. Don’t change the subject.
        ——————————–
        Bring Larry Robinson home.

    • Trisomy 21 says:

      Don’t forget you’re not considering the fact most slapshots are taken from the blue line. Sakic and Ovechkin didn’t/don’t launch their wrist shots from the point. Most un-tipped, non-rebounded shots go in in the form of a wrist shot because they’re from in close. Subban will score even less if he launches some pillows from the blue line. You can’t just compare a forward and a defenseman’s choices of shots like this. In fact watch some CHL games and you see the defenseman make a lot of softies from the blue line, and you notice some of the young guys in the NHL try the same, but the leagues are miles apart and that shiz just don’t work the same up in the bigs.

  6. ProHabs says:

    I agree with absolutely everything everyone has posted tonight. Awesome job everyone. I love each and everyone of you.

    • HardHabits says:

      The comments have been exceptionally entertaining to read. Even AB and I are disagreeing respectfully. Maybe that’s what happens when we Habs fans circle the wagons after a ref jobbing.

      • ProHabs says:

        I noticed that. Maybe AB is starting to realize that if he ever wants to make a living writing blogs and have any type of following, he needs to treat posters with some respect.

        This site has some great writers (such as Serious and JT) who have a strong following because they respond to other posters with a sense of class and not as self claimed know it alls. AB posts some good info at times but a bad attitude can turn many off and it is always easy to find other bloggers as there are many on the internet. It was good to see you HH and AB disagreeing respectfully.

        • Or maybe, just maybe, it goes both ways.

          ______________________________
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        • HardHabits says:

          Even points of view which tend to be contradictory have a nexus upon which both depend and thus share a link to a common ground that can be synthesized upon the hearing out of both sides.

          How boring it would be if we all repeated the same things over and over again. Unless of course if it’s me talking about tanking, size and grit, SD lambasting Gomez, Timo harping on MAB, JD_ dropping his g’s, DEANDALLEY using CAPS LOCKS, E1 quoting some passage from the Bible that could be interpreted as alluding to aliens, Bugs exposing the New World Order….

    • hansolo says:

      Very well…GOMEZ SUCKS!!!!

  7. naweed235 says:

    I guess the blues are the first ones pushing the panick button. Hitchcock replaces Payne

    • Chris says:

      Hard to say…that team simply couldn’t play defence. Should be good for anybody who might still have Halak/Elliot as their pool goalies. Where Hitchcock goes, teams learn to play defence for 1-2 seasons before he gets fired again.

    • Bill says:

      He’s still a good coach, I think, and he’ll make the Blues much better than they’ve been.

      Full Breezer 4 Life

    • JD_ says:

      Interestin’ in that Hitch was hangin’ around the Jackets org as a special advisor and that team, for all its off-season commitments, is strugglin’ pretty badly. Guess he’s already had his kick at that can.

      Always figured Lou would have signed him up in NJ after Lemaire let it be known he wouldn’t be stickin’ around.

      In any event, Hitch has a pretty decent record and is a good hockey mind. He is one of those coaches with a short shelf life – in the Burns, Keenan mode as far as pushin’ guys goes – but if there is potential to be reaped in short order, he’s the man.

    • Everlasting1 says:

      A club stacked with such young talented 1st round draftees, and with the off-season acquisitions of some strong veterans to round out and lead this team to the next level, they should be tearing it up in the West. Having the depth now to overcome lengthy injuries (currently Perron, MacDonald, Huskins), they are still struggling at .500, still underperforming on special teams (currently worst pp in the league), a coaching change(s) was definitely needed. Hopefully Hitchcock can be that missing piece in turning this team around and address the motivational/intensity factor, the porous D, inconsistent offense, and the piss poor pp.
      With the next 5 games at home, things should look up. If not, fire the assistants too, and bring in Capt. Kirk who’s talents are being wasted in the minors :)

      ——————————————————————-
      “And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.” – Deuteronomy 2:33

      “We don’t see things as they are, but as we are.” – Anais Nin

  8. HardHabits says:

    Notice how I said he telegraphs his plays not just his punches and slapper. However it’s no doubt that he telegraphs his shots. Nobody even would dare dispute that. Last season we saw the Wiz get burnt by his predictability so he changed things up and threw in a few fakes, deked the pressing forward and left him hanging at the blueline while he was skating in to take a shot or make a pass. Markov if anybody remembers him is a master of such plays. It’s like a pitcher who has an awesome fastball but nothing else in his repertoire. If said pitcher adds a change-up and a curve ball to his arsenal his fast ball becomes all the more powerful.

    PK has over extended himself a few times already and has made the worse and most blatant turnovers not to mention has single-handedly cost the Habs at least two goals which translated into losses.

    Right now the Habs best defense man IMO is not PK. I’d put Weber and Spacek above him on the depth chart tight now. Does PK have a higher ceiling? Yes! But right now he is like Price was when Halak was around.

    Speaking of which. I loved Halak. I am sorry to see him struggle these days. It’s no doubt that keeping Price was the right move. But all the Price lovers should thank Halak for being here and having that remarkable run that he had. The whole experience helped Price take a quantum leap in terms of maturity.

    Right now PK needs such a learnin’ experience. I think Weber could be that man to push him to excel to his potential.

    • AK_PK_Usay says:

      Duno if i want Price to be inspired by a cinderela run… careers tend to end after them, look at jose theo…

      • HardHabits says:

        I see your point and I agree. But I don’t believe Price is at risk of that.

        Price already had WJC and Calder Cup wins under his belt at that point. He wasn’t learning how to win but rather IMO humbled by the experience of not being the man any more. He knew he had to earn it which thankfully he has. It is no secret that he was struggling at that point for about a year and half.

        After the Halak trade the opportunity was ripe for Price to fail but rather he excelled tremendously recapturing the form that lead his earlier teams to prior championships.

        My point is that the experience accelerated his (re)learning curve. It wouldn’t have happened (at least not the same way) if Halak didn’t have that Cinderella run.

        • Chris says:

          The funny thing is that one could make an argument that Price’s 2006-07 year was his own Cinderella run until he chased the demons last season.

          It isn’t like Price wrapped himself in glory the rest of his career.

          In the WHL, he won 1 of 5 playoff rounds over his 4 year career with the Tri-City Americans.

          He was the prohibitive favourite to be the starting goalie for the 2006 Canadian World Junior team, but laid an egg that season and was left off the roster altogether in favour of Justin Pogge.

          Then he had the great 2006-07 year with the World Juniors and the Calder Cup.

          The following season, he was demoted to the AHL to get some playing time and hardly lit it up (0.896 SV%, 2.96 GAA). Huet was traded out of town and Price became the starter and was quite inconsistent, ranging from brilliant in some of the Bruins games to not very good in some of the Flyers games.

          In his 4 year NHL career, he has also won 1 playoff round out of 4.

          Is Price a Cinderella too? Absolutely not. I’m not sure if Halak is either, to be honest, as the Blues defence was so completely inept. This season might be a write-off for Halak, but he’s shown before that he will fight to get back. Just like Price did last season. Price is almost certainly the better goalie long term.

          But Halak reminds me a lot of Tim Thomas, a guy who everybody wants to write off because he simply shouldn’t be a good goalie based on his size, his style, his pedigree, etc. But he just keeps bouncing back up.

          • HardHabits says:

            Quite the Cinderella run. Price won two titles along the way and IMO he has all the earmarkings of success at the NHL level too.

            I was talking about how the Halak experience jolted Price in a good way. The essential thing is that Price defines his trajectory so the credit is Price’s alone but Halak was still a catalyst in his learning curve. One of many but a significant one nevertheless.

            My initial point is that PK is entering a period where for all his strengths still exhibits glaring deficiencies to his game that compromise his team. Weber at the moment has been seeing his responsibility increase, most notably being on the ice to end the game with Spacek and as the defensive zone pairing against the Senators.

            I can see Weber stealing some of Subban’s thunder and that in turn lighting a fire under Subban’s @zz. ;-)

  9. 1010 says:

    Just watched Henrick Sedin purposely snow the Chicago goalie. Kieth Ballard steps in and crosschecks Sedin. Result: powerplay goal Vancouver seconds after the Chicago penalty. Looks like the league is all over this snowing the goalie thing as someone stated earlier. These refs are really sharp-eyed and consistant.
    Keep drinking the kool-aid folks.

    GO HABS…

  10. I always have to smirk whenever people complain about Subban’s slapshot or “telegraphing” it. I was talking to Punkster about it yesterday and we were kidding around about it. Subban would undoubtedly be more successful if he threw some wrist shots in because his wrister is as good as his slapshot, but the idea that his windup is hurting him is ridiculous.

    What’s the biggest problem that would arise from a shot being too obvious? The shot gets blocked. Well unfortunately for that line of argument P.K. Subban has the 3rd most shots among defensemen in the entire NHL with 41 in 13 games. That isn’t the kind of shot total of a guy struggling to get his shots through.

    The kid is a stud who played 23 minutes a game against the other team’s best lines every night, rarely makes mistakes, and often breaks up goal scoring plays single handedly. Just thinking about last night I can remember a play where the Rangers were coming across the blueline looking dangerous and P.K. stopped two blueshirts in their tracks on his own, stripped the puck and cleared the zone with a perfect one handed pass while Gorges was out of position (not to knock Gorges because he’s been solid as well).

    People wondering why Subban is “struggling” should familiarize themselves with the concept of PDO before making snap judgements.

    One of the best ways to determine how a player is playing in terms of puck possession is their relative Corsi number. Basically this is how many shot attempts are fired for and against while that player is on the ice, relative to the raw numbers of the rest of that player’s team, per 60 minutes of ice time. Looking at that, Subban is simply one of the most dominant defenseman in the league. His RelCorsi number of 28.4 is behind only Dion Phaneuf (who’s had a fantastic start, hate him or not) and Brent Burns (who’s been a rock for San Jose). And Subban’s raw numbers are actually better than Phaneuf’s.

    This is why the idea of benching the kid is absolute insanity. You would basically be taking 23-25 minutes per game that the team dominates, and gambling that a guy who’s never faced that kind of competition (Emelin) could do the same. Never going to happen.

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    • Habso says:

      once again, I agree. this place is just getting worse and worse. the trolls run rampant, and the mods play favorites. I’m not surprised the Montreal Canadiens organization put a stop to them using the Habs in their name.

      • I don’t think saying Subban is struggling or to sit him is trolling, it’s just a blatant display of really, really poor hockey knowledge.

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        • Habso says:

          Ya, I was talking about the other stuff that goes on here…

        • Chris says:

          I can’t agree with you here.

          Subban is playing well, but one of the few levers that a coach has to instill lessons on a player is his ice time and spot in the line-up. Subban makes clumsy, stupid mistakes on the ice, mistakes that get other players benched or exiled to the press-box.

          Subban is still a young kid on a roster full of young kids. If players like Weber and Diaz and Emelin are going to be sat when they make an egregious error, than Subban’s got to have the same treatment.

          Scotty Bowman wasn’t afraid to use ice time, public comments and any other lever at his disposal when it came to making Steve Yzerman a well-rounded player. Yzerman, a much more accomplished player in the mid-1990’s then Subban is now, chafed under that attention but ultimately he did what was asked and became one of the best two-way players in the game.

          That being said, I don’t think Subban should sit right now. If I had to pick someone, it would be Gill who I feel has not been particularly solid. I felt Subban was pretty bad during the losing streak, but he’s bounced back nicely.

          I’m not worried about Subban, because he really didn’t come on until January last year either.

          • The Habs are in a much different situation now though. Sitting Subban would be a terrible decision. He’s the #1 defenseman by leaps and bounds. Subban went through benchings last year, but this year he’s just too important. You don’t bench a guy like that.

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          • HardHabits says:

            PK is #1 in ice time only. Weber, Spacek and Gorges are providing better play right now and better numbers in plus/minus and points.

            http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20122MTLDADALL&sort=plusMinus&viewName=summary

            PK is as much the #1 on D as Price was #1 when Halak was taking the team to the ECF’s.

            My perspective is that Subban is in a funk right now and his play has been hurting the Habs. I also believe that Subban has all the tools to turn it around but IMO he hasn’t done that yet.

          • That’s a poor way to judge anything, HH. And I think you know that. You have to know the difference between the minutes Weber plays and what Subban does. And +/- doesn’t tell the tale. Look at things like Qualcomp scores (Subban’s is the highest) and puck possession numbers (Subban’s are ridiculously high) tell that story much better.

            Put Weber or Spacek in Subban’s shoes and all of HIO would be wanting them traded for peanuts.

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          • Chris says:

            Yes, but your numbers are also a bit out to lunch right now as the season is still young. For example, Subban’s minutes have been cut from ~25 per game for the first few games to ~21.5 per game for the past 6 games.

            The quality of competition number is also changing because Martin is showing more and more faith in Weber and Spacek as a pairing, while Gorges is Martin’s shut-down guy and is currently playing with Subban.

          • That’s actually not true, Chris. Subban has been the top Qualcomp guy from day 1 of the season and Gorges started facing the top competition when he was put up with Subban.

            Weber and Spacek are still being sheltered as a 3rd pairing, even though they’re playing far superior to Gill and Diaz which confuses me greatly. I don’t get JM’s decision making process there, but that’s why Weber’s +/- is so high. As soon as they go on the road and JM can’t dictate matchups, that pairing looked really weak. Last night they were a combined -5.

            If the numbers would fluctuate wildly there would be cause for saying small sample size. But as it stands, if you’re going to throw out those stats then things like goals and assists should be thrown out as well based on the same complaints.

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          • Chris says:

            http://www.cs.unb.ca/~mwf/habs/

            Very useful site that keeps track of who plays with who. He’s been doing this for a number of years now.

            Spacek and Weber are averaging about 2 minutes per game short-handed. I doubt Martin would use a third-pairing he doesn’t trust defensively in the situation where they are most likely to face the other team’s best players. Gorges and Subban are obviously the #1 pairing, but Spacek and Weber have been coming along nicely.

            I didn’t catch the first period last night to see why Martin cut Weber’s minutes so mightily, but it is a good example of how he doesn’t usually overlook substandard play form his other defencemen, but he does have players on the team that get ridden into the ground even when they are not playing particularly well (Gill and Gomez being two prime examples in the early season…both guys are much better in the second half).

    • punkster says:

      Since you dragged me into this…I’d still like to see his shot attempts (since the 41 shots is, I assume, SOGs). No argument with you here, just would like to know how many miss the net, get blocked or deflected etc. in relation to other D in the league. The big golf swing seems, to my aged and admittedly weak eyes, exaggerated, slow and telegraphs his intent. I recall his shooting last season seemed to produce more results when his wind up was shorter.

      ***Subbang Baby!!!***

      • Propwash says:

        His telegraphed slappers also produced some timely, beautiful goals as well.
        He wasn’t doing too great at the beginning of last season either, then he goes out and starts ripping it up. It’s a matter of time ’till he pops.

        _____________________
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      • Chorske says:

        I don’t mind the slapper. But I DO mind when it is the only weapon in the arsenal– when the whole PP seems to be set up around the point shot rather than moving the puck towards and through the crease. The slapper from the point (I have said iit before and I will say it again) is a kind of lame play that works awesome when it works and creates horrible turnovers when it doesn’t.

      • Dave, he always uses the golf swing, especially on the PP. The OT goal against Chicago and the tying goal against Boston in game 7 were both golf swings.

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        • punkster says:

          Long after he modified his approach to mixing golf swings with regular slap shots and wrist shots. And no, he doesn’t always use the golf swing. I’m simply pointing to the overuse of the golf swing at times…like last night.

          ***Subbang Baby!!!***

          • He still got 5 shots on net last night ; )

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          • punkster says:

            True…so he’s improving :)

            ***Subbang Baby!!!***

          • HardHabits says:

            Yeah but AB, how sweet would it be if PK started passing those sure goals to players standing at the side of the net or the lip of the crease like Markov does? He tried how many slappers last night? So he hit the net often but did any of his shots go in or were there any juicy rebounds that got pounced on and buried?

            There’s no doubt that PK has enormous skills. IMO though he’s not realizing his potential and rather has made some suspect plays so far this season.

            It’s like a goalie who makes a slew of great saves and then lets in that late weak one that breaks the backs of his team. Jose Theodore comes to mind.

            Let’s hope PK doesn’t end up like that and I am not saying he will. I am saying that he needs to simplify. He’s trying to run too much while his walking still needs work.

          • Well HH, to that all I can say is that PK isn’t Markov. He’s not the savvy vet that the Markov we all remember is/was/hopefully will be in a couple weeks. His style of play is totally different, he’s a shoot first guy. That said, he hit a post last night on a shot that clearly beat Lundqvist. The goals are going to come, he’s too good for bad luck to keep going.

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          • showey47 says:

            IMHO he is just like cole right now. Creating alot of chances but not reaping the rewards. Both are way too talented to be kept off the score sheet for much longer.

          • Agreed 100% Showey.

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    • sane hockey fan says:

      I agree with everything. The problem is that a large amount of people here just don’t know what to look for when watching hockey, let alone a defenceman. They don’t see the take aways, the power moves off the boards, the deft passes out of the zone, the blocked shots or the fact that he is on the ice in all situations and is matched up against the other teams best players. For soooo many people, all they look at are STATS and they see a kid with 0 goals, 3 assists and -4 with a lot of PIMs and come to the conclusion that he needs to sit. Its maddening. As a kid I was always told the Canadiens have the most knowledgable fans, after reading what I read here, what I hear on the radio, on TV, etc. I’ve come to realize we are probably not the most knowledgable fans. The post passionate, probably, the most opinionated, definitely, but maybe not the most knowledgeable.

      • I’d say they’re the most knowledgeable fans, but the fanbase is so large that there’s still a lot of people who aren’t that knowledgeable. We also have confirmation bias in the negative respect towards Habs fans, especially on this site, because we are exposed to Habs much more often. Take a stroll on a NESN comment thread to see some real dummies.

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    • hansolo says:

      Andrew, I have no complaints about how he plays the actual game of hockey. I read enough of EOTP to understand one has to look at stats and not simply go by one’s impressions — you and your colleagues there have done a wonderful job of explaining that to stats naifs like me. I get completely that Subban defensively is a stud.

      But can Subban play hockey just as well without jawing at other players after the whistle? Without perhaps pretending he’s more hurt than he is in an attempt to draw a penalty? Without having to shower snow on Lundqvist? Would his not doing those things detract in any way from his being the hockey player he is? I don’t think it would.

      I am a person of color. Look, I’m not saying there isn’t a different standard applied to him when it comes to that sort of behavior — there absolutely is. We can complain about the different standard all we want but in the short-term that doesn’t accomplish anything. The aspect that is race-related will have to await a more enlightened societal outlook. There is a substantial part, though, that isn’t race-related and that he can accept responsibility for. He doesn’t have to be Max Lapierre on top of who he already is. Rather, perhaps he should (if he can) channel his inner Jackie Robinson.

      I’m watching the VCR-CHI game. Daniel Sedin was boarded and drew a penalty, Henrik showered Crawford with snow — and did not get a penalty. On the ensuing PP, VCR scored. Joel Quenneville could have complained loudly to the refs about the lack of a penalty call on Henrik but didn’t.

      So, what’s my point? There are different standards. Not everything is worth complaining about. It’s better to take responsibility for your own behavior and leave the other stuff aside. If you have a reputation as a pest, you will hurt your team in the long run. Subban needs to understand that. Henrik Sedin doesn’t have that rep — which is why he got away with his snow shower and Subban didn’t.

      • Hey Han, in some respects I agree, but in others I don’t.

        Undoubtedly Subban jaws after the whistle, undoubtedly he dives from time to time. But his reputation far exceeds the actual things he does on the ice. That has a lot to do with him being a person of colour in my opinion. It probably also has a lot to do with him being a Hab, because let’s face it the pro-Bruins/Leafs HNIC crew have been on him since game 1 of last season and cemented him as a member of the most talked about pests.

        He CAN play without that stuff, in large part he did during the playoffs last year. But I think he’s a more effective player when he gets other players off his game.

        The snow shower penalty last night was a reputation call, you’re 100% right about that. Plekanec did the same thing the very next shift. And maybe this is bias on my part, but every time I’ve ever played tender in a game of ice hockey, you get snowed every time you freeze the puck.

        You’re right, most things aren’t worth complaining about. However I think it’s about time Subban starts getting the benefit of the doubt in spite of his reputation.

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        • hansolo says:

          Agree his rep as a pest exceeds his actual body of work as one, and that the HNIC/NESN crew have artificially inflated that rep. Still, “it is what it is,” however sad a commentary that might be on the state of the NHL.

          Thanks for all your work here and at EOTP.

        • showey47 says:

          I agree with you about him being a hab as playing a role in this. Do you really think anybody from HNIC crew would be saying squat about him in a negative way if he played for either the leafs or bruins? No chance. In toronto he would be labelled as the next savior with the unfortunate consequence of having some lame assed nick-name attached to him. Nobody would even know who he was if he played for phoenix.

          • Right on all points. Marchand pulls 3x the crap Subban does and HNIC won’t say a peep. In fact they frequently laud the way he gets players off their games. Meanwhile Milbury calls Subban a cockroach.

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  11. Peter Young says:

    What good do Un Canadien Errant’s comments, as spot on as they are, do the team unless they are formalized into an official complaint to the NHL about the officiating? Several commenters in various threads have correctly stressed that coach Martin does not make a fuss about bad calls during the game, when we all know that coaches blowing their stack over bad calls does in fact influence the referees. Lacking that, at least the club should make a complaint post-game. How can officiating improve unless errors are pointed out to the NHL and its officials? (I do not assume bad faith on the part of the officials.) Now perhaps the NHL bigwigs will do nothing; if so, then the onus is on them. But perhaps they will do something. At any rate, I think the club should make complaints about egregious officiating errors, i.e., when the complaints are plainly justified.

  12. punkster says:

    In reference to my post below, I was going to choose this video to express my PK love:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ounJsqomcv8
    (come on now, doesn’t that just get ya?)

    Or this one:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrRPA25UBGg
    (Barry White, baby. Oh baby!)

    …but as this is a hockey site and there’s a certain manliness expected from the guys here so I stuck with The Heavy.

    ***Subbang Baby!!!***

  13. HardHabits says:

    UCe is one of the more literate and astute persons commenting here. His observations are accurate and his assessments equally so. His comment above is 100% correct from start to finish up to and including the part about Subban.

    For the time being IMO Subban should wrap his head around the concept of less being more. I am thinking he could even be sat in favour of Emelin for a game or two. Needless to say his play has major room for improvement and the crux of the matter is simply he hasn’t the experience and is need of developing his maturity.

    Will he make mistakes? Most certainly!! However he isn’t there to score goals. He’s there to defend against them. He is too easily read by the opponent as he telegraphs his plays just as much as he telegraphs his slapper or his punches. The kid needs to learn how to be deceptive. As it stands he’s too obvious.

  14. kerwin117 says:

    Time to get some stability and have guys play together. I dont know how we can change everybody every night. Put Gill and PK back to together . They played well together as a unit last year. Secondly the players have to fine room around the net and quite charging it. Players by the circles get better opportunitiies than everybody crashing the net. Lets show a little of our professionalism.
    I guess we should have thought about our best area of penality killing last year before we did not sign a couple of key players.

    Loyal Fan

  15. JD_ says:

    On a more upbeat note, my eldest daughter went to a fan event at the Bell Centre this afternoon. Both her and her younger brother are huge Hab fans. The youngest doesn’t really care for the sport, somethin’ I told her could detrimentally affect her relative positionin’ in my will.

    She went with a bunch of friends from John Abbott. She kept callin’ durin’ the day with updates and came home with a bunch of pictures and some video clips.

    Met Price, Subban, Spacek, Moen, Gill, Desharnais, Jorges, Blunden, and Eller and got pictures with a bunch of them. Also met Nilan, Lambert, and Green.

    Highlights:

    * Table hockey against Moen and then Spacek.

    * Havin’ her question read out to Soobs on the jumbo screen – she wants him to follow her on Twitter – durin’ which her and her group of friends started screamin’ like teenyboppers at a Beatles concert. The video clip on her camera shows Sooby on the jumbo screen lookin’ over to see where the commotion is comin’ from and wavin’ at them.

    * Tellin’ Price’s girlfriend her boyfriend is hot. I’m sure she was pleased as punch to have a bunch of screamin’ teenage girls tell her that.

    *cough*

    * Later on, talkin’ to the Soobinator in the stands, she mentioned Twitter again, and he said, “Oh yeah, I remember you.” She tells me she teared up. Fans, I tell ya, they can be so emotional…

    * Hands down life of the party? You guessed it: Spacek. He was totally into the table hockey, high-fivin’ everyone when a goal was scored, pumpin’ his fist, and – I laughed hard when she told me this – he kept pointin’ to the little plastic player with the #6 on his back and sayin’, “Ah! Spatcho!”

    In the meantime, I’m lookin’ up Too Many Men in the NHL Rulebook and bitchin’ about idiotic calls.

    And they say youth is wasted on the young.

    • twilighthours says:

      JD of all my favouritest favourites on this site, you might be my favouritest. I love your gross use of the apostrophe.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      It must have been awesome for your kid, great experience for her.

      There weren’t none of that going on for us back in our day. All I remember happening to me as a punk teenager was getting glared at by Forum ushers when we made too much noise.

      My older sister never got into hockey, but soaked up some knowledge by osmosis, since Saturday nights at home were dedicated to la Soirée du Hockey, regardless of the wishes of the womenfolk. Anyway, one day she came home and handed me an autographed picture of Maurice Richard, who she met that day at work. Apparently the company’s owner had a friendship with le Rocket, so he asked him to come into work and sign some autographs. Apparently he walked in, a little bit sheepish and embarrassed, introducing himself to everyone and shaking hands, while the women swooned (“Il est beau en titi!”) over a man in his mid-sixties, and the men paid their homage as if POPElvis had walked in.

      The cool thing was she had him sign the card for me, and said she thought I would appreciate it more than she would. I think that’s the day that the teenage rivalry ended and we really became brother and sister.

      ———————————
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    • Propwash says:

      I can’t wait ’till my little guy is old enough to bring to the Habs fan event.

      _____________________
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  16. punkster says:

    Sitting here reading the PK comments and feeling embarrassed with myself for thinking, even for a moment, that PK should rein it in.

    I admit it. The thought crossed my pea sized mind last night and I now feel ashamed. So I’m throwing myself on the mercy of the HI/O commentariat.

    I do not want PK to back off, slow down, chill out. No way. The PK I want, the PK this team needs is the PK from this old video.

    Kick ass, PK!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5ekG-3_fcs

    ***Subbang Baby!!!***

    • ed lopaz says:

      very cool Punkster! very cool!!

      its a disgrace that the last paragraph was even included in that post above.

      “……to stop embellishing when he gets (often) deservedly pushed or shoved or popped in the mouth.”

      thats not what my idea of being a Habs fan is all about.

    • twilighthours says:

      It’s worth repeating (I posted it below): you’re a gem, too, Punkster. Lots of love (whichever kind you want) coming your way.

    • HabFab says:

      JM hinders him enough already, doesn’t need our help IMO.

      Also will someone drive “twilighthours” home, please!

    • Nina76 says:

      100% right Punkster I do not want him to change keep on bashing PK we needyour big body do not spoil his style…………..he will learn in time………….Question about the other teams when playing against our Habs……………..IS IT RACE RELATED????????????????

  17. twilighthours says:

    What’s going on here? Are people b!tching on Subban? I agree that he hasn’t been great so far this year, but let’s remember a few things, shall we? His performance after gorges got hurt last year and Price’s play were the two reasons mtl made the playoffs. He’s got all the tools to be an elite NHL defenseman (if I’m allowed to use the word ‘elite’). He is the best player who is not a goalie to play for mtl since chelios. This is a sophomore slump, and it probably won’t even last the month. PK is a stud, pure
    and simple.

    • Bripro says:

      I’m with you on this one.
      He’s a kid still. We have to remember that.
      Once he settles his nerves down, his natural intensity will pick up.
      I agree. He’ll be top 3 in the NHL for years.
      Cut him some slack!

      • ManApart says:

        Pk will be a top defenseman, but top 3 is being too generous. And Twilight, calm down with the best player that’s not a goalie to play for the Habs since Chelios. Way too premature to say that.

        • punkster says:

          Scene 34. Same street, same rain, same dim streetlight…a large black hearse slowly pulls to a stop and the trunk pops open with a loud click.

          ***Subbang Baby!!!***

        • saskhabfan says:

          Kind of like when you said halak was a top 3 goalie in the world. Guess that was a whole lot of premature wasn’t it? Its hilarious actually. Almost as funny as when you would say injuries are just an excuse for any habs struggles but then you said injuries to the blues was the reason halak was sucking last year. But thanks for coming out.

    • Sean Bonjovi says:

      “He is the best player who is not a goalie to play for mtl since chelios” LoL

      “Andrei Kostitsyn is a better hockey player than Max Pacioretty”
      – Sean Bonjovi

    • Nina76 says:

      I agree with you to twilighthours leave him alone.GO PK GO!!!!!

  18. Danno says:

    PK if you are reading this DO NOT tone it down.

    If anything, you should crank it up a bit.

    We are Miracle Whip and we will NOT tone it down:

    We will not be quiet
    We will not try to blend in
    Disappear in the background
    Play second fiddle
    When we’re in a sandwich…
    A salad, a panini or crostini
    You’ll know it
    We’re not like the others
    We won’t ever try to be
    We are our own mixed up blend
    Of one-of-a-kind spices
    We are Miracle Whip
    And we will NOT tone it down

    PK! PK! PK! PK! PK! PK!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n1vtZR16RY

    ________________________________________

    “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”

  19. HABSGUARDIANANGEL says:

    UMM>

    you can blame the refs all you want!! But the habs under JM have always taken alot of penalties and deserving, we showed some heart and poise by making a game of it, but we beat our selves.

    ALso, under JM, unlike guy, we dont generate many penalities. So This is part of hockey avoid the box, and create penaties, blane the refs all you want, but you got to face the facts, we beat ourselves, and this isnt anything knew, check the stats, its sad, I dont believe in diving, but player need to embelish a little to create penalites, all teams do it, and montreal dosnt. and we always take alot of bad penalities, I dont lame the refs like a lot of these whinning babies, and writers, i blame the players.

  20. Habfan4lfe says:

    We didn’t lose because of PK or Price. We lost because of crap/biased officiating. It’s that simple. It’s nothing new just a little more obvious this game. Refs have routinely nailed Montreal on any infraction but the other team can constantly offend and offend all night with next to no penalties. The ref missed interference and tripping calls all night long for NYR. In front of our net they were tripping our defense and crosschecking us left and right and the ref was in the immediate corner every time doing nothing.

  21. Was a great post until it came to PK Subban. Sorry UCE but that’s just not true. Subban has been ridiculously dominant in all 3 zones all year. He’s not putting up points and he’s still the best defenseman on the team.

    ______________________________
    Seriousfan09 has started a Movember team named McPhee’s Irregulars. Donate to him, or me or the team to raise money for a great cause!
    http://mobro.co/AndrewBerkshire

  22. LL says:

    Even the NY Post thought there was mystifying officiating

  23. slychard says:

    @AK_PK; how about the boos and USA chant at the draft in Minnesota when PG briefly spoke French to the fans. Classy.

  24. ed lopaz says:

    every team needs and HAS a player like P.K – its his style to play

    chippy, in your face, aggressive hockey.

    typical jacques martin “soft serve” horse dung being served up by

    our “guest” comment above.

    Give me a freakin break!!

    You want P.K to sit in the stands??

    Unreal.

    And this is the comment that gets posted by the Mods and described

    as a “great comment”!!

    • 1010 says:

      Apparently PK is doing it all wrong. He should be more of a classy type pest in the, ohhhh….maybe the Brad Marchand way. Now that will win the refs over and allow your team to maim the opponent with nor fear of league involvement.
      Once PK hones his pest skills the league, the refs, and the media, will like this team a lot better.

      GO HABS…

      • ed lopaz says:

        about 7 years ago, Gainey was quoted as saying something along the lines of

        “we will have to have faith in the league and the refs to make the calls”.

        When Blunden made that hit, I jumped out of my chair and cheered.

        Was I the only one who thought – “wow! that guy can play on my team any day!”

        And how do the refs respond when Blunden is attacked by the Rangers CAPTAIN AND ASSISTANT CAPTAIN??

        And how does Martin react?

        Blunden played about 1 minute last night for the entire game.

        But Habs fans are “worried and concerned” about P.K.??

        Its a nightmare scenario.

        The refs screw us on the call.

        The Rangers attack us for a legal hit.

        Our coach benches a Hab who wants to play the game hard

        And our so called “fans” want P.K benched.

        • 1010 says:

          This league has set different standards for different teams. Apparently, this team isn’t allowed to have an agitator. For some reason these guys are held to a higher standard by the league, by the officials, by the media and, saddest of all, by our own management team.
          The last observation would explain JM’s reluctance to get any player who might look for blood when someone headhunts one of our guys.
          Bad PK! Play nice or forever taint the legacy of the Flying Frenchmen.
          I wonder what Fergie or Knuckles would think of this?

          GO HABS…

        • ManApart says:

          Why do you have to ruin things by bringing up something “Gomez” Gainey said.

  25. kerrgte says:

    Not quite related to this post but …

    Boy, I just checked out the Bulldogs. Rather discouraging stats compared to the winning team last year.

    Nobody doing very well at all – including Louis !!

  26. pierre lapuck says:

    I don’t have a problem with JM’s lack of animation behind the bench; quiet guys look pretty stupid when they’re trying to act like Tortarella and it isn’t who they are. Better he should have a quiet and pointed word or two for the ref or the ref’s seeing eye dog.

  27. AK_PK_Usay says:

    I feel bad for the rangers, the reffs handed them the game on a platter and yet we almost won none the less.

    Also, sports crowds in the USA sure have a lot of uneducated people, 1st boston now NY start chanting USA USA, when habs have quite a few american players…

    I often felt the bell center crowd was impolite, but compared to these moron infested arenas, we’re showing great class.

    I hope the states turn their economy around and focus on what they do great, organization, innovation, hard work, creative etc…

    If they’re gonna invade a country for oil, why not Venezuela, closer to home, and while you’re getting the oil, curve the influx of drugs from SA.

  28. Marc10 says:

    Explaining the refs: the game was in NY. That is all… We’ve seen it how many times?!

    I especially enjoyed the slew foot on Max Pac in the last 5 mins. It couldn’t have been more blatant.

    Now I know how the Rangers were able to defeat the Sharks… I guess the Colon discount has been replaced by Gary’s deal of the day!

  29. 1010 says:

    So lets pretend that except for the Blunden screw-up the refs did a great job last night. And lets pretend that the Habs ended up with the worst PP to PK ratio last year because these eagle-eyed refs don’t miss a thing. And when the Canadiens continue to be one of the most penalized teams in the league this year-and you can rest assured that they will- it is these same great refs doing their same great job .What then is JM going to do?
    This is then one of the most undisciplined teams in the league. And obviously we have a coach who cannot fix the problem.
    This trend will bury this team so will we have to trade for some real leadership in the dressing room?
    Do we trade the guy who is apparently hated by the refs?
    Do we fire the coach who can’t convey his own stoic demeanor
    to his player?
    Seriously folks, this is a problem that shows no end in sight.
    I don’t hear Martin discussing this issue so does he really think this undisciplined play-along with the countless too many men penalties- is not a problem.
    What is to be done? Nothing?
    GO HABS…

  30. OneTimer says:

    Great post by the eminent UCE, however I do have an issue with the Subban part. From what I can see, Subban HAS toned down his antics from last year, and doesn’t get any credit for it. Sometimes it seems like the whole league is just dead-set on hating him.

    The only exception to what I said above is the recent Boston home-and-home. PK knew he could goad those dunces into some bad penalties with his antics, and lo and behold, he did. Attaboy PK, don’t change THAT part of your game, you’re doing fine.

    Now, if only he could starting scoring again… I won’t deny it looks a little bit like the dreaded sophomore slump. :(

  31. HabFab says:

    And we don’t have enough problems already!!!
    http://english.ruvr.ru/2011/11/05/59894558.html

    And for the PC’s…get stuffed!!

  32. Chris says:

    You know, I’m actually glad I missed the first period and a half last night. The second half, I really didn’t see anything particularly egregious from the refsso maybe Martin DID convey his unhappiness, but he did it in a professional way instead of a hissy fit. Coaches often talk to the refs after the period is over…I didn’t see if Martin did that or not last night.

    Subban’s snow shower was a silly call, but it came from off an awfully silly play from a player who doesn’t have the best reputation around the league…I wouldn’t be surprised if Subban had been included in the ref’s pre-game briefing with instructions to watch him for unsportsmanlike behaviour in trying to goad players into retaliations after the Ference call in Boston the other night. I thought immediately that I would give him a penalty when I saw the play, but I was also surprised when the referee actually DID give him a penalty.

  33. badbalance says:

    Habsfan, retaliation merits a penalty either way, the play stopped for a scrum, rangers player went on to attack blunden in retaliation to the hit. The play after should have at least
    Been 4 on 3 and not 5 on 3

  34. habsfan reduxit says:

    … well, all in all, a very good representation of how things occurred last night in Manhattan, and I specifically applaud ‘errant’ for the clear-headed explanation of the use or misuse of the instigator rule. And his assessment of P.K. is correct, if not entirely shared by Habs’ fans everywhere.

    … but I have to disagree with ‘errant’ on this one issue. The obstruction call on Blunden was IMHO, a good call by virtue of the fact that he DID leave the bench early. for the express intention of body-checking Dubinsky. Doing that meant he ‘went out of his way’ to interfere or obstruct Dubinsky’s progress. Ergo, a good call. Had he been on the ice legally at the time, it would not have been obstruction. But the replay clearly showed he left the bench early for the express purpose of the body-check.

    “Whenever you have the puck, and don’t know what to do with it, put it in the net.” – Toe Blake

    • Mark C says:

      I don’t see any rule in the rule book that states legal contract is an interference penalty if committed by the “6th man”.

    • JD_ says:

      What you’re describin’ is double-jeopardy.

      Note the wordin’ of the rule: “If in the course of making a substitution, either the player entering the game or the player retiring from the ice surface plays the puck with his stick, skates or hands or who checks or makes any physical contact with an opposing player while either the player entering the game or the retiring player is actually on the ice, then the infraction of ‘too many men on the ice’ will be called.”

      The too many men is called when any hockey play – includin’ a check – is made with too many men on the ice.

      The interference call was separate from the above call. Blunden was simply called for interference. Unfortunately, Dubinsky was in full control of the puck, at the time.

      On its own, it was a bad call, a mistake further compounded when Callahan was not given the instigator.

      Bad calls are made all the time.

      But two simultaneous and really bad calls leadin’ to a 5-on-3 in a scoreless game is a bit beyond the pale.

  35. badbalance says:

    There’s a difference between yelling at the refs and working the refs, JM should at least open his mouth hen stupid penalties are calle an work the refs.. Not stand there pulseless

    • kempie says:

      He did not just stand there. As someone pointed out last night JM was seen shrugging his shoulders at least three times and he also shook his head quite a bit. At one point it appeared that he had some pretty choice words directed at his shoes or at something under the bench.

      • Danno says:

        Wait. That’s not all!

        I spotted J-Mart furiously scribbling something on his note pad.

        ________________________________________

        “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”

  36. badbalance says:

    Where is Emelin…. Can we actually ive him a chance to play an adapt to north american rink/style or are we just gonna keep him there on the side and never play him again, Weber and Diaz have not been very physical and that good on D… Maybe it’s time we at least give him a shot and see what he’s capable of. Or are we just waiting for Markov to come back and play Emelin with him… From what I rmember during the first games is Emelin laying out hits and playing Physical, and being pretty decent on D

  37. Ehabs9 says:

    Way off topic for this blog. BUT! I would really like to see a headline announcing the signing of Gallagher to a 3 year contract. They sign Tinordi (which I have no problem with, I think he’s developing well), who has been injured for the last 2-3 weeks. And yet Gallagher sits unsigned with 16 goals and 11 assists in 15 games since getting back to
    Vancouver.

    • Trisomy 21 says:

      Tinordi was sitting at home twiddling his thumbs because of his injury, Gallagher’s busy and doesn’t need distractions at this time. He’s working for a contract anyways so let the man work, for all we know that’s the hunger driving his game this season. There’s plenty of time, don’t worry too much about it. Also if the Bulldogs do end up going far in the post season, it’s not likely to see all of tinordi, gallagher, beaulieu and bournival play for the team. There’s their chemistry to consider, along with experience.

  38. Mark C says:

    Must be a New York thing, the Jets are getting every call against Buffalo today.

  39. hansolo says:

    As to JM’s demeanor to the officials, in comparison to that of Mike “Death Stare” Babcock or Lindy Ruff (who looks irritated most of the time), here are some reasons he might not behave like the other two:

    a) It’s not part of his nature — if so, as much as we might not like it, we can’t change him. He does stick up for his players in other ways. He did speak about the questionable calls last night in his post game presser. When the team doesn’t quit despite adversity like it faced last night, it’s fair to say he has not lost the room. He would look ridiculous if he behaved like Carbo. Hardhabits below suggests ways JM might well communicate calmly with the refs. I submit JM does get his point across.

    b) The Habs weren’t the most penalized team in the NHL last year just because of biased officiating. Gio, Cammy and JM all spoke in their post-game interviews of needing to play with more discipline. If you’re out of position, you will inevitably take tripping, high-sticking and hooking penalties. Is it the System that ‘s responsible (because it’s so difficult to learn or to understand)? Or the players? For now, the players seem to agree they must accept some of the responsibility.

    c) Yes, the officiating may not be “even-handed” because the team has a certain reputation. Players like Lapierre, the now-lamented Ribeiro, Kovalev and, yes, PK, helped earn the team a reputation for diving. PK also unfortunately goes out of his way sometimes to draw attention to himself, and not necessarily in a complimentary way. I’m not at all saying the current team deserves this. We would be foolish, however, to think that the refs, who are human after all, are impervious to such perceptions. The only way to dispel this reputation is through consistent, disciplined play. That’s part of the reason JM is measured in what he says and why he wants PK to tone down his antics. It doesn’t help the Habs (or PK) if he’s constantly targeted by the other team or the officials.

    d) Longevity (and success, as in a Cup win) earn a coach some leeway with the officials — which is why Babcock and Ruff may seem to get a bit more leeway. (Carbo didn’t). I’m sure JM earned that leeway when he coached the Sens. He will earn it in time with the Habs, if he stays as coach.

    e) Once you’ve earned some leeway, you still have to pick your spots. Tortorella? He may have won a Cup but he yells at the refs all the time. He’s so predictable, I’m sure the refs tune him out. Do Joel Quenneville or Dan Bylsma (who’s won a Stanley Cup and has earned some leeway despite being a young coach) always feel they need to complain? No.

    • Propwash says:

      Yep, Carbo used to yell all the time at the refs, which didn’t do him or the team any favors.
      I don’t think it would help JM or the team either if he snapped.

      _____________________
      Dooooooooooooooomed!™

      • Trisomy 21 says:

        Don’t forget Therrien got a penalty called because he threw his arms up in the air… creating a 5 on 3… in the playoffs… and then Fraser gets a job explaining missed calls on TSN. idiot.

    • Da Hema says:

      There’s just too much reason and thoughtfulness in this post.

      Is this…HIO? Am I at the wrong site?

    • HardHabits says:

      Thanks for the honourable mention hs. The comment you are referring to is on the other thread.

      NOVEMBER 6, 2011 11:33 AM AT 11:33 AM
      Why does it have to be yell? Martin can take the ref to task by using his intellect. You can’t make people do anything. Having a fit is not necessarily the answer.

      Why not use this approach?

      You gave us a double minor. That is unacceptable in my opinion. It was their team that instigated the fighting. Why haven’t you assessed an instigator penalty for Callahan? Not to mention you’ve ejected one of my players for defending himself. How do you expect me to feel about this? I can tell you right now I am incensed. Yes I know it doesn’t seem like it because I am speaking calmly and in a monotone voice but believe me I am not a happy camper. I need to feel like this game is going to be officiated fairly. So can you do your job the way the rule book dictates? Rule 46.2 clearly states that a player who is deemed to be the aggressor of an altercation shall be assessed a major penalty for fighting and a game misconduct.

      Further it states that a player who is deemed to be both the instigator and aggressor of an altercation shall be assessed an instigating minor penalty, a major penalty for fighting, a ten-minute misconduct (instigator) and a game misconduct penalty (aggressor).

      Callahan was the instigator. He should be ejected and it should be a 5 on 4 not a 5 on 3.

  40. kempie says:

    Funny thing is, I couldn’t watch the Ottawa game and I wasn’t too hurt about it. It’s Ottawa after a layoff so, meh. But last night I was really looking forward to watching two teams that I think match up well for an entertaining game. So, I saw just over 4:00 of decent 1st period hockey and then the idiot show started. Now if the shenanigans can be explained by just sheer incompetence and stupidity then fine. Maybe they just blew the call completely and let’s move on. I’d think if the officials are really that bad, it should go both ways eventually. Funny how that never seems to happen. So what we have then is a potentially good game flushed down the toilet. As much as the team did to make things interesting, I just knew that if they got within a goal in the third, they’d be sure & shut it down before it got too close. And that’s how we get PKS in the box for unsportsmanlike. Too predictable, disgusting, frustrating and typical.

  41. JD_ says:

    JM’s Cone of Silence™ used to be a bit of a pet peeve of mine. I recall ramblin’ on about it last season or the one before. It wasn’t so much I wanted Burnsian histrionics, just the occasional and measured verbal assault after a patently bad call.

    The whole Blunden incident, complete with its BewildermentFactor™, was one of those. I’m still shakin’ my head at the unbridled incompetence the refs put on display. If that ain’t instigation, nothin’ really ever is. If that’s interference, we may as well pack up and go home.

    The truth is, I eventually changed my tune on what I think JM should do in those situations. It came about after listenin’ to a Ken “Bikini Vigilante” Hitchcock interview on Team990 last season.

    Hitch was talkin’ about his immense respect for JM, havin’ worked with him in various capacities, includin’, if memory serves, some time with Team Canada. He noted that JM had long ago abandoned the whole notion of gettin’ hot durin’ games, preferrin’ to keep his emotions in check, and that Hitch believed it transformed JM into a better coach.

    I’ll take Hitch’s word for it cause, other than the fact I’m not an NHL coach – I just play one on the Intraternetwebz – I have a lot of time for the wily ol’ coach’s opinion.

    Like any reasonable debate, however, there are always two sides and, in this case, there is a reasonable compromise. Like I said, I don’t want Burnsian antics; Carbo had little self-control and regularly made enough of an arse of himself that I think the refs just stopped listenin’. However, I do recall Muller goin’ ballistic with the refs on rare, selective occasions last season.

    I really don’t expect JM to change his stripes and, therefore, this is a job that just screams outsource. Assumin’ it isn’t already the case – who really knows? – openly delegate the role of ref-heavy.

    Randy Cunneyworth not only has the demeanour necessary to work the refs over when necessary, he looks just crazy enough to give it an edge. It doesn’t have to be many nights or any night, for that matter, but when the situation warrants – i.e., when it is both blatant and crucial – he should be on the zebras like a fat kid on a Smartie®.

    And, last night, the ice was strewn with those delightful, candy-coated chocolates.

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      “If that’s interference, we may as well pack up and go home.”

      If we didn’t pack up and go home after the travesty of the Zdeno Chara whitewash last year …

  42. Bill says:

    As God is my witness, before last night I did not even know you COULD get called for Unsportsmanlike for a snow-shower … I’ve seen a thousand snow-showers, and one penalty. Amazing. And nothing to the Ranger who straight-armed him for it.

    They called it because they don’t like PK. Obviously he does something to piss the refs off: we know they take things personally even though it rarely comes to light (see Auger, Stephane).

    Likewise, I would say they over-call against the Habs because they don’t like the Habs in general. They must agree with Boston fans that Montreal are dirty, divey, and whiny.

    K, I don’t see it, but maybe they should just collectively stop whatever is pissing the refs off. If there are guys on the team diving, bench them until they stop. Cheap shots? Knock it off.

    And ABSOLUTELY the coach needs to get involved. It’s basic human psychology that if the refs get an earful about an obvious bad call, they will hesitate to make the next one. It works for every coach in the NHL, even if JM is too dignified to do it.

    Full Breezer 4 Life

    • Habso says:

      Tim Peel was born and raised in Toronto. He’s probably a die hard leaf fan, who hates the habs and everything Quebec.

    • Chris says:

      I’ve seen unsportsmanlike penalties for snow showers before, but it is usually not in a somewhat close game. Usually, the refs will do it to calm down any extracurricular antics before they happen.

      In this case, the snow shower was REALLY late and Subban’s not so wonderful relationship with the NHL refs probably contributed. Throw in that not too long before that, Lundqvist was complaining to the referee after getting a hip to the facemask (I want to say Pacioretty, but I can’t remember who it was) and I think you’ve got the makings of that penalty.

      It sucks, and it looks particularly bad given the rest of the calls in that game. But I’m just going to file that game in the “never happened” file and look forward to the next one. :)

    • christophurrr says:

      either dubinsky or callahan got called for it earlier this week against the leafs

  43. Chris F says:

    Making a joke of last nights travesty is not going to change anything. Coaches and Management/Ownership need to do something and make some kind of statement. If players are asked they’re all to scared to lose money to be honest, but it would be interesting to hear Molson’s views on last nights game. The pic above clearly shows PK took one to the chops after his very dangerous snow shower, if this is what he has to put up with because of the racist and bias views of people like Richards/Cherry/ and Maclean have tainted PK’s image it’s going to be a very frustrating career. How many games do we have to lose because Ref’s and league brass have very complicit views of who will win and who should win? It’s getting harder and harder to watch a league full of hypocrites and watching the old boys club sit back and laugh at what we think is true reality t.v. I’m afraid our Habs are up against it, to the point where there’s nothing they can do.
    In the last 6 months we’ve had the Boston beatdown (I realise Price and Poo Poo won), Patches near death, Ference’s head hunting Halpern and subsequent middle finger, Julien verbally abusing the refs and yet another middle finger (where’s the bench minor when that happened?), and on and on and on. It’s sickening to watch. And makes it clear to anyone what is happening here.

  44. Un Canadien errant says:

    I just sent the email copied below to Kerry Fraser at TSN, let’s see what he has to say.

    ***********************

    Can you please comment on the sequence in the first period between the Rangers and Canadiens on Saturday night? There are lots of elements to cover.

    1) Was the bodycheck by Mike Blunden obstruction?

    2) Not disputing the call, but please comment on the ‘too-many-men’ penalty.

    3) Please comment on why the Rangers’ Ryan Callaghan was not given an instigator penalty on the subsequent fight.

    4) Please comment on the distinction between an instigator and an aggressor penalty, and examples (if any) of when the aggressor penalty has ever been called. An example I remember is Greg Campbell of the Bruins beating the crap out of lightweight Tom Pyatt last season yet somehow for a reason that completely escapes me not being assessed any penalty beyond a five-minute major for fighting.

    Thanks

    ———————————
    How about it NHL? No fighting, just hockey?

    http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

    • Chris F says:

      I’ll be shocked if the Toronto Sports Network doesn’t delete your request.

    • Hoegarden says:

      Not 100% sure on this but I believe the reasoning on this is that a ref cannot assess two minor penalties on one player for one infraction. Therefore the “too many men” reads as a “team” penalty and the second infraction is charged against the player.

  45. showey47 says:

    Great post by Un Canadien Errant. The first 2 questions i had after the blunden hit was 1) why is that interference? and 2)Where is the instigator call on callaghan? Callaghan should have been tossed and should have been offsetting penalties all around.

  46. HabFanSince72 says:

    I have to disagree with people who wish Martin would lose it more often. I think you can criticize Martin for some things (development of young players being foremost), but not for that.

    First, I don’t think it works. Second, and more importantly, being able to keep your cool behind the bench is important, and keeping your calm in the Montreal hockey madhouse probably a prerequisite for the job now.

    I actually appreciate that Martin does his job with dignity. That’s what the Montreal Canadiens are about.

    • Bripro says:

      Sorry Paul.
      I don’t agree this time.
      The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
      I’m not saying to go out of your way, but you have to make yourself heard to earn the necessary respect.

    • Sal says:

      Just wanna say, I personally pay close attention to when a coach loses it on the refs, and, all too often, it works in favor of that coaching tactic. Nobody expects JM to actually lose it, like some coaches, although that would be fun to see, but, why can’t he call a ref over and at least get an explanation, or, offer his side of what he saw? Instead, he stands there, mutters to himself, swears under his breath, and gets ignored by the officials who just carry on as if he doesn’t exist, which, in this case, he doesn’t.

      Sal from the Hammer

    • SmartDog says:

      I agree (but not with you) with those who say it works. What it does, when done properly – and when the coach is RIGHT – is it puts the ref under pressure to not f-k up again. This is the kind of pressure Martin should use. Watch Ruff (mentioned below) or Crawford, or Babcock… or also mentioned – Pat Burns who was awesome at it.

      When guys like Julien do it though, it just looks like a 4-year old pouting…. I swear when he does it, I want to give the big baby a giant sucker.

      ————————————-
      Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • Bill says:

      As I posted above, the coach has to do something if there is an OBVIOUS bad call, or several. No-one else is going to call the guy out, and if no-one puts any pressure on him, he’ll just keep going.

      I think it definitely works. When was the last time you saw the Habs get NINE power-plays and the other team two?

      You can call out a referee without compromising your dignity. Pat Burns had dignity. Pat Quinn had dignity. I agree, I don’t want Bob Hartley behind the bench or anything but there is a middle ground.

      Full Breezer 4 Life

  47. dicktracy says:

    were those the globetrotter refs? a shame really…

  48. Thomas Le Fan says:

    Just as devil’s advocate, could the obstruction penalty be because, penalized as the 6th skater, Blunden shouldn’t have been on the ice to hit the Ranger skater, whether it appeared to be clean or not? Sort of like, when a drunk driver driving in a perfectly fine manner, gets hit by another driver but is guilty for being on the road impaired.

    • hansolo says:

      As I understand it, there is no double jeopardy in hockey — you don’t get 2 penalties for essentially the same infraction. Yes, Blunden shouldn’t have been on the ice — so, no issue at all with the TMM penalty. Well, he hit Callahan because Callahan was the puck carrier (what else was he supposed to do, now that he was on the ice?) — so there shouldn’t have been interference. There SHOULD have been an instigator penalty on Callahan.

      • Thomas Le Fan says:

        I agree that that’s generally true, you don’t get called for hooking and then have tripping added on if the player goes down but, the apparent clean hit may muddy the water, what if he came off the bench too soon and tripped someone on a breakaway? If it happened against my team, I would say that, in this situation, he should get both penalities. A penalty shot and the too many men. If it’s called on my team, I yell, “No Fair!”
        The non-call on the instigator then is the only “blown call”.

    • Mark C says:

      Pretty sure non-penalties do not become penalties solely based on the player being the 6th skater.

  49. SmartDog says:

    5 EASY QUESTIONS:

    1. Which was the most bothersome last night:
    a. The call on Blunden for a clean check
    b. The non-call on Callahan for chasing Blunden down.
    c. The snow-shower call.
    d. Martin’s non-reaction to the reffing.
    e. None of the above – get over it, move on.

    2. Who are you more pleasantly surprised with:
    a. Spacek
    b. Our new 4th line center (can’t spell his name)
    c. Kostitsyn
    d. Moen
    e. Gomez!!!! (his non-play is key to our wins I think)

    3. I’ve been negative on the Cole acquisition… but impressed the last several games with what he and Max together bring to this team. The north-south game works! Do you agree? What else is working up front that wasn’t working last year?

    4. Which coach does the best ref-rant? Does it work?

    5. The obligatory Scott Gomez question (since you guys keep telling me you expect, I want to deliver): when Gomez comes back I would put money that his winding “wait at the blue line for me” will throw the rhythm off the game we’ve established. Do you agree: yes or no?

    SD
    ————————————-
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • Danno says:

      Tough call but I’ll go with 1 – a. Because the rare instance a Habs player actually delivers a good, solid CLEAN bodycheck a ref turns it into a penalty. It’s as if the league is sending a message to us not to play a contact game.

      2 -e. Zemog! Reverse the curse.

      3 – North-South is always preferable to the usual South-Deep South System of play.

      4 – Ruff rules for rants. And he’s effective

      5 – He should be put on left wing on the fourth line and forced to prove he deserves more time and a centre spot on the lineup.

      ________________________________________

      “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”

    • deuce6 says:

      1.E

      2.B

      3.Still would like more of an aggressive fore check…Don’t understand acquiring bigger players and waiting at the BL for the opposition to bring the puck out uncontested…Cole is a breath of fresh air, though..Big body that has wheels and uses his frame to his size..

      4. Torts

      5. Gomez can go back fishing in Anchorage for all I care..

      ——————

      Yes, I’m a Hab fan..Wanna fight about it?

  50. Bripro says:

    I still say JM should pull a Pat Burns and let the refs have it when they try to control the game and let the penalties get out of hand.
    You have to command respect!

    • Bripro says:

      Posting on my own post, to prove a point.
      Winner of 3 jack adams trophies, and a stanley cup.
      Took NJ, the Bs and the Habs to the big finish.
      Just look at the 42 second mark of this video tribute and see why he was so well respected, for a s••t disturber.

  51. HardHabits says:

    Just listening to Mad Dogs and Englishmen. Never realized this but I see where Eddie Vedder gets his inspiration from.

  52. novahab says:

    Wow first I want to say thank you Boone for writting the truth. I don’t thnk there any true Habs fan that want favorites from the refs. We don’t want to win that way. I do believe there is culture that comes from the media such as TSN, Sportnet and most of all HNIC that the Habs can not be a significant team in the NHL if the league wants to be successful. There is no way our national broadcasters view the Habs like American TV does the Yankees. Now in all fairness the Yankess have won but only because they out spend. Last night and the game again Carolina really stand out but thats becuase they were so lopped sided. Then you can look at the no call or lack of action to Koivu who almost lost an eye. Patches last year nothing and how about Zedink who almost had his head taked off and one game for that. How about Richer having his wrist broked with a slash and because he owned the Bruins that year. Has this all been payback by the refs and the NHL because of the too many men on the ice and our Guy’s famous goal. Did Jacobs scream at Bettman last year when he thought here we go again as the Habs took a 2-0 lead.. Did he scream at Bettman this league owes us after stealing the cup away in 1979 with that famous too many men on the ice. Could this explain why the Habs are being called so offen for too many men on the ice.

  53. HabinBurlington says:

    The NHL has for a long time approved of and virtually encouraged a frontier justice system. An example is the calling of the instigator penalty, seems if your player has a received a big hit, the league chooses not to call instigator. Rather the league allows players to instigate a fight in order to achieve the frontier justice is so desires.

    This is far fetched but heck, may as well. Is it possible the refs as an extension of papa Campbell are essentially punishing Montreal for not being card carrying members of the Frontier Justice NHL?

    It just at times seems Montreal is penalized for not partaking in the justice system encouraged by the league.

    Just a thought, and while far fetched, I wonder at times if there is any possible correlation. This twisted league could have the gaul to believe until Montreal protects its players like the other kids in the sandbox they ain’t helping.

  54. EricInStL says:

    Didn’t watch the game as I was watching a great LSU vs Alabama game. Now does it surprise you that the refs are calling crap against the Canadiens ? Not me. Why ?

    Because the Candiens will never raise their voices nowadays.

    Remember when the whole NHL (Boston, Phily etc) would bitch about the Canadiens getting all the calls ? Well they did. Know why ? Because they would get hell from Bowman, Pollack etc for bad call etc. They would never dare call crap on them. Now you have good old JM and boys saying nothing.

    Well if you say nothing you get nothing.

    Management MUST protect their players, and they should go public and say that PK is wrongly targeted. Make it a point dammit.

    It’s maddening seeing as the team is playing well.

    • Mike Boone says:

      I caught the fourth quarter and OT of LSU-Alabama. Great game, even though 9-6 is an NHL score.

      You’re right: The pendulum has swung the other way on perceived favoritism.

      A famous Harry Sinden anecdote has the Boston general manager reacting to a referee’s call, circa 1978, by springing out of his Montreal pressbox seat to shout “Death! Taxes! And the first penalty at the Forum!”

      Mike Boone
      Hockey Inside/Out blogger
      Gazette City columnist
      mboone@montrealgazette.com

      • EricInStL says:

        Right, Montreal will not rock the boat. It sad since the team is a reflection of the state of the city. They have an average mayor, and everyone is concerned with not with making the city great, but just being happy with what they have.

        I used to love Montreal when I lived in Park Ex for all those years. Maybe it was because we were below middle class and took any insult about Montreal (either against the team or city) very personaly.

        Too bad.

  55. slychard says:

    The PK shower penalty was quite puzzling, how often did Ratchand do this to opposing goalies all year long last year and get absolutely no penalties for his actions. I also agree that PK needs to grow up and stop making those “what me?” looks at the refs after his shenanigans. He needs to grow up. It looks rediculous and totally unprofessional. I made that same observation recently and was chastised for it by another poster. Nice to see I’m not the only one to see it as such.

    • Un Canadien errant says:

      The thing about his constant looks-pleas to the referees is they happen during the play. I’ve seen him take himself out of the action by doing this, while everyone else is playing hard, and then have to try to catch up. He needs to stop being the agitator, and when he cuts it close to the line or crosses the line, he needs to keep his head down and play hard. If I’m a ref and trying to make up my mind, his “I’m innocent” look will probably convince me that he’s guilty.

      ———————————
      How about it NHL? No fighting, just hockey?

      http://relentlessineptitude.blogspot.com/

  56. HNS says:

    Bottom line…….1/2 of those calls were horseshite. A shame too for we could have had those two points from those rags.

  57. doogie says:

    Watched last nights “game” and shook my head watching penalty after penalty called against the Habs. It boils my water to see Jacques Martin standing behind that bench like a statue. Coaching is engaging your bench and firing up your players. Let’s take up a collection to pay JM’s fine but just once…..start throwing sticks on the ice! Empty the whole Frickin’ stick rack JM. Please go mental just once! I’m buying!

    Is he alive? Sometimes I’m just not sure if he’s plugged in or actually breathing? Jeez

  58. Mikey_39 says:

    I was reading up on some rumours and two names that were associated with the habs were Penner and Suter. Yes, one of the sources was Eklund so I’m not even saying it’s going to happen, but what would you think about either of the players/ what would you give up?

    • Bob_Sacamano says:

      Difficult as Suter is an UFA after the season. Penner? Don´t want him.

      • Mikey_39 says:

        Ya I figure most people would pass on Penner. But what if we didn’t have to give much up for him? Would nobody be interested in adding a big body on our 3rd line?

        Suter is interesting but not as a rental. We would need some assurance to have him long-term. But with so many important players to sign this offseason I don’t see it happening

        • Bob_Sacamano says:

          Interesting yes but losing assets just to have a player for 7-8 months? I mean with all the players we have to sign we couldn´t resign Penner who makes 4.25m this season and to make that clear: I clearly prefer Kostitsyn to Penner.

          You´re right about Suter but no one could get you the assurance…

          The only trade I´d really like us to make soon is the one that brings us a big physical stay-at-home defenceman for something like Weber or Diaz, Palushaj and a low pick.

    • mrhabby says:

      why add penner when we have cole…does not make sense.

  59. Neutral says:

    Our lineup is good the way it is – I wouldn’t change anything – we couldn’t get into the game because of the reffing – I guess it doesn’t hurt to complain – but no one pays any attention, Bettman and his boy’s even if they do read our comments – sit back and most likely have a few choice words for us.

  60. HardHabits says:

    Holy crap that Joe Cocker video was hilarious.

    Man I am getting old…..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHaA4RePosY

  61. otter649 says:

    Wonder if snowjobs will now be called in The Shootouts as now snowjobs are deemed unsportsman like…….lol

  62. DearyLeary says:

    It doesn’t bother me so much that PK got the ‘unsportsmanlike’ penalty, it bothers me that that happens on a nightly basis and it’s the first time in my life that I’ve ever seen it called.

    I just don’t understand why the refs find it impossible to be consistent.

  63. pierre lapuck says:

    Ok explain this to me; the other night Martin St. Loius comes to a complete stop on a shoot out play, showers the goalie with snow and then scores and the play is deemed legal. The TSN idiots go apeshit with hilarity as MSL “showers the goalie ” as part of his shootout move. But in a game when a guy stops in front of the goalie (P.K.) he gets two minutes for unsportsmanlike conduct. My question is this; how many sets of rules are there? I’d ask that hairball Kerry Fraser but he’s just like the SIU, nobody ever does anything wrong except the bad guys.

  64. habsfan0 says:

    Hey Boone..how’s your Movember moustache coming along?

    Somebody should adjust the clock on this site..it’s EST now.

  65. HabFab says:

    Joe Cocker…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wG6Cgmgn5U&feature=related

    Although it is funny…too many drugs back in the day!!

  66. Malreg says:

    I’m fine with wanting to call a penalty for snowing the goalie, but just call it every time! Not whenever the ref feels like it…

    How many times did we see that in the playoffs last summer, and there was never any call? Those instances were much worse than what PK did, and Price has gotten it before without it ever being called.

    Pavelski on Howard in last season’s playoffs. Pavelski got 2 for roughing for the scrum that ensued, nothing for the snowing.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPvAkjtTUo8

    • Habso says:

      Same for the instigator. If the rule is there call it everytime, not just when you feel like it against a certain team you don’t like.

      • dhenry1234 says:

        Maybe you should stay on topic. The OP Clearly is talking about the snowing the goalie penalty. No one talked about the instigator here so you should just just talk about that.

        Oh yeah that’s your logic against you, how’s it feel?

  67. Hoegarden says:

    May be a misguided rocket towards Peel’s mid ribs might do good.
    Seriously, 17 minutes on the PK is a clear indicator that the Habs had another L added in the standings before the puck was dropped.

    I’ll never forget the explanation given on a disallowed goal last year, against the Pens, by Gomez, that the ref had already “made up his mind” when it was clearly shown that the puck had gone in before the whistle. WRT last night, it sounds to me like Peel could not wait to give the Rags that 5 on 3 and then some as they only potted one. You’d think that pushing the envelope could only go so far.

  68. Jim Edson says:

    There were at least a couple more posts than two!

    PK needs to use his skill rather than his mouth and basically STFU!

    ———————————————————————-
    …..My empire is crumbling, my international sponsors are deserting me, my authority is questioned, I am held in contempt wherever I go.

    Who am I: Barak Obama or Gary Bettman.

  69. WindsorHab-10 says:

    Well said Boone.

    “Hate Bruins like a sickness”

  70. Tony McLean says:

    You agreement with Gandhi Gauthier and Mohandas Martin is touching on the subject of fighting. Why can’t we all get along?

    The refs were out to lunch and determined the outcome of the game, never good. Blunden’s hit was textbook and 100% legal.

    Feel free to mention the fourth goal. Carey Price served up another pie. As is his habit. Killed the rally dead.

    Post script: the instigator *should* be scrapped but what would the Canadiens do, engage in a drive-by slapping?
    ——————————–
    Bring Larry Robinson home.

  71. club_de_hockey says:

    Completely agree with the assessment of PK Subban. His jawing and agitating, though highly entertaining, might do some good with a little reigning in. Ryan Kessler transformed his game by letting his play do the talking instead of his mouth, and became a force to be reckoned with tenfold. PK has far too much talent to resort to such tactics. Once he finds that balance he will be unstoppable.

    —————————————————————–
    “Power plays are an important part of the game and I don’t want him to go on the ice and be stupid. But if they have problems, there’s one way to fix it.”
    -Guy Carbonneau in reference to the on-ice feud between S. Kostitsyn and Grabovski

  72. Danno says:

    Good article UCE!

    After the dust settled following the opening melee, the Rangers got the green light from the refs to go at it with no reprimand for being the instigators or aggressors.

    From that point on everybody knew the fix was in. You can’t blame the Rangers for taking dives and hacking away knowing that Tim Peel me a Grape was on the take and would favour the Rags at every turn.

    Jacques Martin’s usual comatose response wasn’t surprising but what does it take to get him to stand up for his team at times like that? Just once I’d like to see him go bananas just to see what might happen. It works for Ruff and he does it all the time.

    The snow job call giving PK Subban two minutes for unsportsmanlike conduct was the final insult. And the Ranger who slammed PK to the ice after the whistle blew got nothing. What a crock.

    How often does Carey Price get snow showered every game? And how often do the players doing it get penalized? Answer: Often and never.

    This isn’t the first time the refs have pulled this kind of stunt against the Habs and sadly it won’t be the last.

    This is the kind of stuff that turns a lot of people off.

    ________________________________________

    “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”

    • Habso says:

      It does turn a lot of people off. I meet people here in the states who go to a hockey game for the first time and they tell me “hey, I really like hockey, it’s fast paced and full of action, but I’m having a hard time understanding the rules, why was that a penalty and that wasn’t?”. The person figures that since I’m from Canada and have been watching hockey for over thirty-five years I should easily be able to answer. Problem is sometimes I’m left scratching my head saying “why was that a penalty and that wasn’t?” The truth is NHL officiating is bush league at best. You never know what you’re gonna get from one game to another. The refs aren’t held accountable by the NHL and it has really made the NHL a bit of a joke IMO.

  73. Old Bald Bird says:

    It would be interesting to hear Kerry Fraser’s take on last night. I wonder if he’ll wade in?

    I don’t think that, other than the reffing, any conclusions can be drawn from that game. It was beyond bizarre. Serious question: does this happen to other teams too?

  74. HabinBurlington says:

    Agree, want to see Emelin given a chance. Hope White is back sooner than later, but I fear you are right JM will play Darche over Blunden. We could finally have a fairly abrasive 4th line with White/Nokia/Blunden.

  75. club_de_hockey says:

    I disagree about Darche. He is the perfect compliment to any third/fourth line. He uses his size to create chances in front of the net, has a great shot and is dependable on defence. He’s not flashy but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t bring anything to the table. When we signed him for a mere $900,000 I thought it was a steal of a deal. Emelin is a tough guy but there are still holes in his defensive game, which is why he’s being benched. He’ll get his chances though, if anything he will be used as a “depth defenceman” once we get our other guys back from injury

    —————————————————————–
    “Power plays are an important part of the game and I don’t want him to go on the ice and be stupid. But if they have problems, there’s one way to fix it.”
    -Guy Carbonneau in reference to the on-ice feud between S. Kostitsyn and Grabovski

  76. Hoegarden says:

    Fully agree with Emelin in. PK needs a couple of games in the press box (with a clear explanation why). Great kid as he is, he needs to simmer down a bit.

  77. adamkennelly says:

    I agree about Darche – all this “uses his size and creates chances crap” – it never ever happens…on the same page as calling Blunden a tough player – whatever…Columbus is dying – go get Boll or Dorsett…or better yet – both of them.

  78. Danno says:

    Good one.

    ________________________________________

    “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”

  79. kempie says:

    Nice post. Agree top to bottom.

  80. Mark C says:

    You’re missing the point. Yes, if the 6th man commits a legit penalty, I’m sure both penalties would be enforced. However, the interference penalty last night was not a legit call, the refs blew the call, it’s as simple as that. The play did not become interference solely because Blunden was the 6th man.

  81. Thomas Le Fan says:

    But logically how can it actually be a legit hit if the player making the hit was on the ice illegally? You can’t argue that you’re not to blame for a traffic accident that wasn’t your fault when you’ve been charged with impaired driving.

  82. Mark C says:

    Logic means little in this case. It’s simple: is there a rule in the NHL rule book that states if the 6th man touches (legally or illegally) an oppositional player, he is to be assessed a minor for interference? I do not see that rule rule listed anywhere.

  83. Chris F says:

    I don’t think it is BS. How many snow showers have you seen that have resulted in a penalty? Better yet, how many snow showers resulted in a penalty where the team has already been penalized 12 times in the same contest?

  84. showey47 says:

    I could see making a call like that if the game is out of hand on the scoreboard and you are trying to prevent things from turning into a gong show on the ice. But not when it’s a close game and 2 points are still attainable by either team.

  85. OneTimer says:

    fair enough. thanks for doing so in a polite manner. :)


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