About last night …


Sorry for the late posting. The HIO gremlins did me in last night.

Just for the sake of argument – and a good argument might be therapeutic after that traumatic Shootout loss in Buffalo – let’s say your Montreal Canadiens miss the playoffs by a point.
That means that when late April rolls around, the Bell Centre will be dark and the team will be losing $4 million in revenue for each playoff game not being played.
Even if the Canadiens were to be swept out of the first round, they would play at least two home games.
Missing out on that by a single point means Ryan White, who is making a prorated $687,500 this season, will cost Geoff Molson $8 million dollars.

Hockey is a team game, and it’s rare you can single out one player as responsible for a loss. But it happens, and it happened in Buffalo.

The Canadiens had this one in the bag. Tomas Plekanec – along with Carey Price, co-MVP of the Canadiens through 10 games – scored his second goal 45 seconds into the third period to give the Canadiens a 4-2 lead. The goal drove a dagger into the hearts of the Sabres, who had seized momentum in the seesaw game with an 18-shot second period.

Less than seven minutes later, with the Canadiens in control and cruising, White shot a harpoon through his teammates, his coach and Canadiens’ fans.

What was White thinking when he pounced on veteran agitator Steve Ott?

Was he thinking at all?

White was back in the lineup after three games as a healthy scratch. He had ensconced himself in Michel Therrien’s doghouse with two minors and a major during a loss in Ottawa. It was not his first night of irrationality.

So what’s to be done with a player who gets into pointless fights and takes brain-dead penalties.

The Canadiens could trade White to Hockey Night in Canada, but P.J. Stock has the spot in perpetuity. Maybe the Team 690?

Maybe I’m being too hard on White, a nice, friendly Western kid who’s unfailingly cooperative with the media. But as surprisingly pleasant as the first part of the season has been, this Montreal Canadiens isn’t good enough to survive indiscipline.

White wasn’t the only Canadien to have an off-night in Buffalo.

Erik Cole looks slow and distracted. Alexei Emelin, for all his big hits, gets confused and out of position. The L’Antichambre gang thinks he should switch sides.

And what was Colby Armstrong doing on the ice when Buffalo tied it up with two ticks left on the clock?

But the team got stellar performances from Plekanec, Rene Bourque, P.K. Subban, Raphael Diaz, Lars Eller, Brandon Prust and, yes, Peter Budaj, who faced more shots than Carey Price has in any game this season.

Brendan Gallagher scored his fourth and Alex Galchenyuk started the Shootout with a beauty. Hey coach, how about more even-strength minutes for the kids?

If you project last season’s results on a 48-game schedule, it should take 54 points to make the playoffs.

The Canadiens need 41 points in their remaining 38 games – 21 of which will be on the road.

If they get only 40 …



  1. Habitant in Surrey says:


    …agree with You 100 % …White will be some NHL team’s heart & soul guy

    …and, hope We don’t give up on Him

    • piper says:

      Yep….sure he f@#$% up but like you say he’s all heart. not the best fighter but backs down from nobody. He was also a leader and pretty good hockey player in Jr. I thought he’d be a Therrien type of player but maybe not. hope we sticks around.

  2. Habitant in Surrey says:

    …Kerry Fraser explains ‘good goal’ calls by the referee should be reviewable …I thought that had already been implemented, but obviously not

    …so, the referee Peel line of sight could not see the puck being dislodged by Ott’s interference, yet what bothers Me as an ex-goaltender, is the referee certainly had a clear view of Ott present in the middle of My paint flailing for the puck on top of Budaj

    …Ott was not pushed or prodded into the paint …He purposefully went there, and made no attempt to exit

    …that, for Me, should have been sufficient reason to blow his whistle, and/or rule no goal

    …the ‘paint’ is there for a purpose, to delineate for the opposition where they are NOT supposed to be/enter …otherwise, the NHL should erase the blue zone

    It’s these illogical, inconsistent obvious irrational blurring of rules that drive Me crazy as a Fan

    …I’m not crying ‘victim’ as a biased Habs Fan, because these things even out over time, …for example, the loss of this particular point partially compensates for the 2 points We should not have earned in Ottawa, when their clearly ‘good goal’ was disallowed

    …but One would think that after 100 years of experience creating and tweaking the rules of the game of hockey, that the NHL would have solved this years ago

    …a completely unnecessary issue in this day and age

  3. piper says:

    Glad to see you guys are done rippin Whitey. The kid was just doing what he was praised for doing against Washington.
    I was one of the few that liked the hiring of MT but my opinion of him has gone down a notch over this.
    I hope this doesn’t ruin the kids confidence. He can be valuable to this team going forward with more experience. Every team needs a rat killer and he’ll be perfect in that role.

    • Mattyleg says:

      What he was praised for doing…?

      I don’t remember White dropping his gloves and punching someone who had no idea what was going on, but was pleased as hell that he’d just drawn a double minor.

      White doesn’t need to worry about his confidence, he needs to worry about using his brain efficiently.

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

      • piper says:

        He was praised for jumping Fleishman.

        • commandant says:

          I see a big difference between going after a guy who may have just injured one of your teammates, and going after a guy who hit you (and you know you are not injured).

          When Ott hits White, in a 2 goal game, White needs to take note of his number and go after him at a later date, not on the same play.

          Go Habs Go!
          Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports

        • Mattyleg says:

          By who?
          Nobody I read/heard from.
          It was a similar situation where he ended up with a ton of penalty minutes for nothing, while Fleischman only got 2 for boarding.
          He has to figure out/be told how to deal with situations like that. That’s twice that he’s started fighting someone who hasn’t been ready to fight, and has ended up getting a pile of minutes as a result, which hurts the team when it should be giving the boys a boost.

          —Hope Springs Eternal—

        • HabinBurlington says:

          I praised him, but that wasn’t a selfish play either. That was standing up for a teammate. This instance was nothing the same. The team also seemed to relish killing that penalty due to the fact it was standing up for teammate.

          • piper says:

            Sometimes you cant stick up for your team mates immediately. It was just bad timing and he should have known Ott wouldn’t drop the gloves and try to draw a penalty.

  4. ooder says:

    my dad mentioned to me that this year will be much harder for Desharnais, because teams will key in on him much more then before.
    so far he seems to be right. Now I think it’s fair to let him try and adapt and get over that hump of teams paying more attention to him. But how much of a leash does he get?

  5. Sal from the Hammer says:

    Was at the game last night. Even the Sabre faithful, just about fell off their seats, when the boys in TO, no surprise here, gave them the goal to tie the game! Before the ruling came down, the Ref was trying to drop the puck. He was calling the Habs to the face off circle, and he was stopped by the boys in TO, who decided to review the goal! We’ve prolly all seen Fraser by now, saying it was no goal. Duh!!!

    As for White, he jumped the gun for sure, but, the whole place saw Scott put his big mit on White, from the bench. No call!! The refs absolutely suck more this year than ever. It makes a mockery of the whole league when these guys behave like their the ones we pay to see! Bush league, NHL!!

    I think Eller deserve a prolonged chance to play with someone with skill levels to match his own. Either between the kids, or, with Patches and Cole. Having said that, he appears to have stone hands around the net, but, he is big, fast and plays decent in his own zone. DD cannot win a draw, in fact other than Plecs, occasionally, they give up the puck way too often. Last night it was glaringly bad!. They lose possession even when the brutal refs throw the other team’s centerman out. It’s probably the ONLY thing I ever agree with Grapes about. The linesmen throwing guys out of the faceoff is effecting the outcome of games! One more reason, the NHL is bush league.

    Budjai played a good game overall. Last night, he was not the problem. Glad Price will be in net against the Laffs…I hate the way they don’t seem to get up for these clowns!

    • Mattyleg says:

      Yeah, I was surprised that the refs didn’t penalise Scott.
      Kudos to whatever Sabre that was next to him pulling his arm away!

      —Hope Springs Eternal—

  6. punkster says:

    Wow…Mike Boone commenting below just like the rest of us, the esteemed unwashed masses.

    ***SUBBANGIN’ NOW BABY!!!***

  7. aroma says:

    I believe the time has come for these lines to be tried out:


    What worked last year should not be cast in stone. Eller needs to have the chance to show what he can do, and he is playing better hockey than Desharnais. And they need to light a fire under Cole and Pacioretty.

    That said, management may shy away from such a move as we could end up with something akin to the Richard Riots.

  8. Bill says:

    Know what, I’m over the whole thing. Still grabbed a point out of it and it’s a learning process for a team that is significantly different from last year’s.

    I wouldn’t go making big lineup changes. I know everyone wants to blow up the Desharnais line … I think it’s a mistake. That line scored like 80 goals last year. Cole is a slow starter, Pacioretty has not gotten untracked, and teams are all over Desharnais even worse than the commentariat. But I still say the defensive attention being paid to that line is allowing the other lines room. Habs are certainly not hurting for offence right now.

    The only change I’d make is the obvious one: Subban replaces Diaz on the second pairing and plays more minutes. It’s time for Therrien’s humility lesson to end.

    This is a bad year to be a negative fan, because guess what, this is a really good hockey team. Better, in my opinion, than the 1st place team of 2008, and far better than the team that went to the ECF a few years ago. If they stay relatively healthy, they’re going deep in the playoffs.

    • Dunboyne Mike says:

      Agreed, Bill, esp about it being a good year to be a positive fan, and also the potential value re. opponents’ attention of keeping the DD line together.

      But still, at what point last year did that line emerge?

      And on White it’s interesting that the HIO general consensus seems less severe than Mr Boone’s uncharacteristically harsh judgement.

      And even Tim Peel — seems like he and Central were bound by a deficiency of rules and not of application.

      So who do we vent on?!

      How about Lucic? Or MAB?

      I know! Rejean Houle!

      • Dunboyne Mike says:

        Sorry, I forgot Curtis O Hab’s wife (see below).
        It’s very good of you, Curtis. We were on the point of having no one to throw under the bus. Will she be ok with that?

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      Diaz is good though. Did you notice him on the 5 on 3 penalty kill?

      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

    • jedimyrmidon says:

      About the DD line, when the idea behind the unit is that there are two power forwards to create space for an undersized centerman who can use that space and time then you need MaxPac and Cole to be doing their jobs, which they obviously aren’t. I’d give MaxPac more time as he’s coming back from surgery, but Cole really hasn’t looked good so far even considering that he starts slow.

      So the result is that everyone on the line looks bad, and that doesn’t help things.

  9. zip by says:

    fwiw I had a chance to watch Brady Vail in Peterborough last night – been trying to come up with the right description of his game but in fact its is very non descript. He has puck awareness – follows the thing around all the time, however he rarely puts his stick on it. For a guy of his size I really wish he was more agressive – digging the puck out of the boards instead of waiting for it. That said his skating was not bad for a guy who started hockey on inline skates. A project that will need another year in junior and at least a couple in Hamilton.

  10. Timo says:

    Does anyone else hate new rds.ca site?

  11. SlovakHab says:

    It probably has been posted somewhere already, but for thise who might have missed it:


  12. Uwey says:

    Maybe it was already mentioned, but I questioned why Gorges, who was not at all himself after that hit last night, was on the ice during those dying seconds last night????

  13. nellis13 says:

    He maybe shouldn’t have taken the bait but that was a B.S. call. Ott should have gotten 2 for obstruction and he skated into him after the hit like he wanted to fight. They could have given Scott another 2 for punching White from the bench.

  14. TheHotGlove says:

    Shoulda kept Staubitz over this kid.

  15. GGtheHab says:

    BTW none of it was White, Budaj or Armstrong’s fault..the wife left the room with 26 seconds left to let the dog out..taking the mojo with her..she knows she is on the hook for the single point.

    • Curtis O Habs says:

      Interesting. I watch the games when I get home from work around 10:30. On this rare occasion my wife was up and nattered at me while I tried to watch the game. The loss, I thought, was squarely on her shoulders.

      • neumann103 says:


        I thought it was my spousal equivalent, looking for my help in putting kids to bed and seeing less than two minutes left in the third and commenting that it was almost over.

        “Et le but!”

  16. SmartDog says:

    1. Ryan White. If you’re the coach, what do you do with him?
    2. First Line. Is Bourque-Pleks-Gio our first line?
    3. Bourque. Is this the REAL Rene Bourque? Are you suprised?
    4. Emelin. I love Emelin but have other teams found a weakness getting around him? What do you do?
    5. Markov. We KNOW Marky has helped the PP, but is Markov really as good as he was pre-inujury, or are people saying that because he hit the twine a couple of times.
    Listen to the Smart Dog. He knows his poop!

    • Gormdog says:

      1. Dress him in the 7th D slot and play him accordingly.

      2. Yes.

      3. Real Rene is somewhere in between, but no denying that he has taken a complete 180 form last year and looks like a steal at his cap hit.

      4. Hope Markov doesn`t get hurt so Emelin can keep playing with him and learn the positional ropes. Or maybe the opposite, because we all saw what relying on Markov to save you ass in a D pairing can do to a carrer afterwards (see Komisarek, Mike)

      5. He`s as skilled as ever pre injury, but is slower. So, en effet, no, he is not as good. I would rest him here and there, hopefully he ends up playing about as many games as Carey this year (40).

    • Timo says:

      1. Read him a riot act and let him loose with a warning that if does this again, he’ll be making paper planes for a while
      2. At this moment it does look like it, which is really not that inspiring.
      3. Surprised and this is not a real Bourque. Just like the Habs, he’ll come down and come down hard
      4. Well, a glorious dman that he was, JJ, should have an answer to that. I think Emelin needs some tweaking (TM) to his game… it’s not like he isn’t an NHL material
      5. He hasn’t looked that great in Habs own end… nor did he look terrible. He is still decent just not worth the money he’s getting.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      1. Have him miss a game or two or more and in the meantime make him watch the games with Mellanby sitting beside explaining the game as he sees it.
      2. For now it clearly is our best line.
      3. Not surprised, very happy.
      4. Emeilin will be fine, ups and downs in a season. I am comfortable he will be fine.
      5. I know for certain he is 3 years older since all the injuries. Physically he can’t be as good as he was 3 years ago. He probably isn’t as good, but is still useful. MT needs to start gaining trust in other Dmen in critical situations also, not just Markov.

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      1. Ryan White has probably learned his lesson, but I think he still needs to sit.
      2. Bourque-Pleks-Gio = first line, but hopefully only temporarily because they aren’t good enough. They might become good enough with someone other than Gionta.
      3. His history tells us that we didn’t have the real Bourque last year.
      4. Emelin should be able to adjust.
      5. Markov is being relied on too heavily. He’s best on the PP, and should be used somewhat less in other situations. Give him lots of time still but shave a few minutes off. Give them to PK, who is our best D IMO.

    • Mike Boone says:

      1. Pressbox till the snow melts (in Antarctica).
      2. Yes.
      3. Yes. Yes. (Hey, got any No questions? I feel like a Péquiste on Referendum Day.)
      4. Probably should be on the right side.
      5. Markov will never be as good as he was, but Markov at 75 per cent is better than every other Dman except P.K.

      Mike Boone
      Hockey Inside/Out blogger

      • HardHabits says:

        Markov 75% is still better than PK. That might change in the future… if PK takes notes from Markov.

        • Bill J says:

          I dunno, can Markov deal crushing checks? Not as much as he used to, and never as devastating as some Subban ones.

          Their shots are quite comparable.

          Subban is faster.

          Subban hasn’t reached his full potential yet, Markov has and is on the decline from said full potential.

          I think someone saying Subban is better then Markov @ 75% is relatively accurate.

          Go Habs Go!

    • bleedhabs81 says:

      1. Call his mom and see if she can talk to him. Nothing else seems to be working

      2. Yes

      3. This is the real Bourque. The other Bourque was also the real Bourque. Jekyll and Hyde, if you will. Glad Hyde is the one playing right now.

      4. Not sure, I didn’t see his mistakes last night (didn’t watch the game). Hopefully, he is still adjusting.

      5. Markov kind of scares me on defense. He always has. I think he is a cerebral player, but when he gets caught out of position he looks really bad. I think he has been slowed and getting caught is becoming more common. Still glad he is on my team though.

    • FlyAngler says:

      1. Consign him to the Press Box indefinitely.
      2. It is right now and the second line is not the Desharnais line.
      3. Not completely surprised given that he was injured. Talk about no excuses, the kid has just gone out there and gotten it done. The unsung hero to date IMHO.
      4. I am concerned about the cage that he has been wearing, does he have to wear it and for how long? He seems more tentative since he has donned it.
      5. No doubt he is different. Too early to tell if he is as good.

    • bwoar says:

      1. Bench him & coach him. He’ll figure it out.
      2. Yes, especially if/when Gionta gets going.
      3. Pretty much, and not really. I saw a lot of the Flames.
      4. Put him back on the left side where he belongs.
      5. A bit slower and hesitant because he knows it.


    • Habilis says:

      1. Re-assign him to section 400 for Saturday. Let him pummel Leaf fans.
      2. Yep.
      3. Yep. Pleasantly so, yes.
      4. Gotta try switching sides, maybe that stirs something.
      5. Agree with others on this, he’s not the same Markov, but he’s still top 2 on this team and on most teams for that matter.

      • CharlieHodgeFan says:

        1. Give him a blue vest and have him greet fans coming in, or package him up with Weber for Yakupov;
        2. Nope.
        3. Yup. Nope.
        4. It’s a bump in the road, and he’ll adjust.
        5. Markov is two years older, and his knee probably feels like it ditched Bobby Orr and ran to Russia. But he remains a top player and the most important d-man on the team.

    • HabFanSince72 says:

      1. Is there a speeding bus headed his way? And is he listening to music on his iPod so can’t hear it coming?

      2. Of course the Plex line is our #1.

      3. Bourque is back.

      4. Nothing.

      5. No – Marky has difficulty skating. He’s still got that amazing hockey sense though.

      Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

    • Wintercount says:

      1- play him on sat.
      2- hope not.
      3- not he.
      4- emelin top 4
      5- not as good, but still good.
      6- 2017

    • Nitroslices says:

      1-Unless you seriously need him (injury replacement, etc), let him sit for a few games


      3-Surprised; no… Happy; yes that he decided to show up this season.

      4-With the help of JJ, he will work it out.

      5-Slowed up a bit and relies more on his experience. He probably has forgotten more than most of the other D-men in the league will ever know. His experience should help the other D-men.

    • neumann103 says:

      1. Ryan White. If you’re the coach, what do you do with him?
      Bench Lars Eller! But seriously thank God that Therrien has a whipping boy who actually deserves it unlike Eller and Subban. Sit White down. Give him the talk. Again. Make him watch a game or two from the press box,at least until Colby Armstrong does something so stupid/useless that it is his turn to sit. Which is astonishing in that it has not happened yet.

      2. First Line. Is Bourque-Pleks-Gio our first line?
      Absolutely. No doubt. Really by definition whatever line Plekanec is on is the first line unless coaches decide to feed him scrub linemates

      3. Bourque. Is this the REAL Rene Bourque? Are you suprised?
      I hope so. Not surprised that he is better. Am surprised howmuch better he is and how fast he is. Still doesn’t have great hands.

      4. Emelin. I love Emelin but have other teams found a weakness getting around him? What do you do?
      Very simple. ONLY play himon the left side. Every time Emelin hits a string of trouble it is when he is playing the offside. Often it makes him more tentative. Or it affects his judgement.

      5. Markov. We KNOW Marky has helped the PP, but is Markov really as good as he was pre-inujury, or are people saying that because he hit the twine a couple of times.
      No he is not as good as before but he is way better than any reasonable expectation. That whole “if Markov is 80% of what he used to be, they will be okay” thing. He kind of looks about 80% in his own end and 100% in the offensive zone.

      “Et le but!”

  17. Habs lineup against Lauffs

    Pacioretty – Eller//DD – Cole

    Markov – Emelin

    Bourque – Plekanec – Gionta

    Gorges – Subban

    Galchenyuk – Eller/DD – Gallagher

    Diaz – Boullion

    Moen – Prust – White

    Requires approval by MT. Eller has been playing very well and deserves a reward to play on 1st line. This is a great opportunity to see how Eller can handle being our Habs top centre.

    Go Habs Go

  18. bleedhabs81 says:

    The sky is falling, the sky is falling

    No, literally, the sky is falling in Montreal… like 15 – 20cm worth.

    Can you guys send us some snow out here in Calgary? Actually, send it a little further west. I want to go skiing in the Mountains.

  19. 24 Cups says:

    “Without getting into specifics,” Chiarelli said, “the [draft pick] condition is basically if Thomas plays for the Islanders.”

    So nobody pays out 5M in salary, no assets or picks change hands and both clubs make a mockery of the salary cap.

    Smooth, real smooth.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Steve, complete agreement. FOr the NHLPA to make a big deal out of the Gomez and Redden buyout and not protest this is complete hypocrisy. How Boston is allowed out of Salary Cap Hell without doing anything is wrong, for the Islanders to now supposedly achieve salary floor without paying is wrong.

      To me this is proof, again, that whatever Jacobs wants he gets.

      Perhaps Bettman and Jacobs are enjoying a good chuckle out of this one.

      • 24 Cups says:

        It gives new meaning to the concept of trading cap space as outlined in the new CBA.

        Boston can now go on a shopping spree near the trade deadline (if nned be).

        • HabinBurlington says:

          It just doesn’t feel right in the least. I almost wish Thomas would report to New York to screw them up, but then Boston gets a good 2nd round pick!

          • habstrinifan says:

            Agree it doesnt fell right and isnt right. But the one difference is that Tim Thomas ‘reneged’ on his contract and therefore allowed the Bruins the option t suspend him… which is at the crux of the difference.

  20. Bill says:

    I’ve been very critical about White’s gaffe last night, but I’m not sure I’d bench him. Surely he knows what he did wrong and can modify his play appropriately. I mean, I know it’s not the first time, but at some point it has to he through. I am sure that this time Therrien has read him the proverbial riot act.

  21. GGtheHab says:

    I have read almost all the posts and haven’t noticed anybody else mention this, apologies if I missed it, but after each of Mtls 1st 2 goals who did MT come back with? DD and coy..and both times Sabres quickly tied it. Now I get that he was trying to build on the momentum of the goal by coming back with what he may think is his number 1 line, but numbers show that they aren’t the most productive trio, and are most susceptible to giving up goals. check top 3 +/-, maybe playing against weaker opponents but keeping them out at one end and putting them in at the other is still what it is all about..I am losing faith in DD and coy

  22. Dunboyne Mike says:

    Can the Maple Leafs catch the Bruins in the HIO poll? I just can’t stop watching.

  23. SteverenO says:

    Boone wrote questioning the coach for having Armstrong on the ice at the end of the game.

    Let’s address that question. Who SHOULD be on the ice to close out a game:

    Up front, Therrien sent out a line of Plekanec , Eller, and Armstrong

    Here are the stats: (even strength only) minutes of ice time per goal allowed: * not counting the final goal with two seconds left last night.


    Prust ; minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 89
    GAllagher : minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 83
    Armstrong; minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 80
    GAlchenyuk: minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 51
    Bourque: minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 45
    Eller: minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 43
    Pacioretty: minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 36
    Cole: minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 31
    Gionta: minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 29
    Moen: minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 25
    Plekanec ; minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 23
    Desharnias; minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 22

    Left out one guy: Ryan White, in 53 minutes of ES ice time there has been ZERO goals allowed while he is on the ice. (that’s when he is on the ice skating, not sitting in the sin bin)
    On defense Therrien had Georges and Markov to close out the game.

    Here is the defensive stats to date: (again not including the final goal)


    Georges: minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 55
    Subban ; minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 52
    Diaz: minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 45
    Emelin: minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 33
    Bouillion: mi nutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 29
    Markov: minutes of ICE time (ES) per GA 23

    So it one was being accurate, it seems as if the mistake was having Plekanec instead of either Prust, Gallagher, Bourque, or Galchenyuk, or even White. Perhaps this mistake can be overlooked, or excused, because of Pleks face off ability (something we can analyze in a future post).

    The bigger mistake was having Markov on the ice instead of PK, Diaz, Emelin or Bouillion.

    Markov may very well be our best OFFENSIVE defenceman . He is not our best defensive defenseman.

    Will anyone criticize Therrien for having Markov and Plekanec on the ice to close out a game? not likely. For the casual fan, Its hard to criticize the coach for that mistake. It’s much easier to question Armstrong being on the ice , but from Mr. Boone???? …….
    I thought you were better than that.

    I would also question the coaches choice of shooters in the ShootOut, but as far as I am concerned the shootouts are for the fans, and in reality they should not count in the stats. But that is a debate for another day.


    Steve O.

    • Phil C says:

      I wonder what would happen to your stats if quality of the opposition and o-zone vs d-zone starts are considered. Prust has been playing with the kids and has been getting the most favourable match-ups and mostly non d-zone starts. Plekanec often faces the best players in the NHL with many d-zone starts.

      If you were to use your stats to decide, Gallagher would be sent out, which obviously would not be ideal given some of the other choices.

      • SteverenO says:

        The stats that I posted do not reflect the quality of the opposition , or whether they started in the offensive zone or the defensive zone.

        I do not think that Gallager should be on the ice to close out the game, he is a rookie, But Bourque, and Arnstrong are veterans who have been very strong defensively this year. My post was refrring to Boone questioning Armstrong” defensive abilities.

        I, personally, would not automatically put out Markov when we are trying to hold a lead, either.


        Steve O.

    • LA Loyalist says:

      Interesting post. Thank you. I point out that Therrien is still learning his players, they didn’t have training camp, and he wasn’t here last year. It is inevitable he is going to make tactical mistakes now that he won’t make in another month or so. Especially after we’ve played other teams at least twice and had time to watch video.

      I would also suggest while your number crunching is impressive, keep in mnind that sample size can greatly distort statistics.

      That said, keep up the good work. Much better than reading “Budaj sucks” for the 20th time.

      • Old Bald Bird says:

        MT watched closely all year from what I hear. I mean if we can figure out some of these things …

      • SteverenO says:

        I am aware that sample size is a big factor, and things can change quickly especially early in the season.

        My point was that putting Armstrong in that situation having only been on the ice for one goal in over 80 minutes of even strength ice time could hardly be called a mistake.

        Some people “play” results. If things go wrong they look to blame the easiest targets. Whether they gave up a goal should not factor in ones judgement of the coaches decision of who was given ice time in different situations.

        Armstrong deserved to be on the ice at that time.


        Steve O.

    • Mark C says:

      Where’s the context for these stats?

    • neumann103 says:

      I am not big fan of Therrien but for the last 25 seconds or so after the Buffalo timeout I would have had Plekanec, Eller, Prust out up front, so not far off his choices.

      “Et le but!”

  24. commandant says:

    The demise of the New Jersey Devils has been greatly exaggerated again.


    Go Habs Go!
    Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports

  25. Habitoban says:

    Cmon, folks, there’s lots to enjoy this season, and what I enjoy most so far (in additionto the kids, of course) is watching Rene Bourque. He is the complete package: speed, strength, size, grit, vision, offensive and defensive smarts and nifty skills – and so far, I haven’t seen him take a shift off. So refreshing.

    • 123456 says:

      agree – and seeing patches shot in person made me a big believer. miller struggled with his shots. there ar emor epositives to the season so far than negatives – let’s enjoy them

  26. RC-51 says:

    All i have to say is Ott was in the crease and KICKED Budaj into the net so the goal shouldn’t have counted! Last weekend an Ottawa players shadow interfered with Price and a goal was disallowed? Horrible reffeering and completely agree with Don Cherry(1st time in a while) with the linesman waving TOO many players out of face-offs, just drop the puck!

    Also, how does one add an avatar?

  27. CharlieHodgeFan says:

    10 games in, and a better record than Tampa, the Rangers, the Flyers, the Caps, the Red wings or the Blues. Even with the last two games looking rocky, they are doing okay.

    We can all get upset at White being “thrown under a bus”, but that’s meaningless. The coach could not give excuses for him. He played solo hockey trying to consolidate his job (if he is intelligent) or he played boneheaded inexcusable hockey if he isn’t. Either way, he has given points to the opponents twice. He needs some time in the Minors, at the least.

    The biggest test of Therrien is going to be how long it is till we see White again. If it’s soon, he’s weak.

    But White is so minor in the scheme of things (as long as he isn’t playing) that he’s hardly a blip. The team is competitive, even if it has lost momentum. This still stands to be an entertaining season.

    We just have to pool our money and send Timo on another cruise. They get nervous when he’s watching them.

    • Chris says:

      White will not be sent to the minors. He would have to go through waivers, and he would be claimed in a heartbeat.

      He’s cheap, right handed and defensively responsible. He needs to go back to playing his own game and stop trying to be a Macho Man out there.

      • Habsrule1 says:

        He’ll be benched for a few games, and hopefully he’ll learn. I love White but he cost us that game. I know it, you know it, the coach knows it, and really, he even knows it. He basically said as much, didn’t he?
        Stop defending him ffs. If he knows he cost his teammates 2 points, why are we even asking the question?
        Now let’s move on.

        Go Habs Go!!

        “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

        • Timo says:

          Along with improving his game, he can learn how to make paper air planes. It is not a very common skill.

          • Habsrule1 says:

            If only I was a better skater. I’d be an awesome paper airplane maker by now.

            Go Habs Go!!

            “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

        • Chris says:

          Please don’t ever try to insinuate that you have any clue what I know. I think I’ve made it pretty clear throughout the day what I know about the White situation. If you disagree, that’s fine. We don’t have to agree or share viewpoints.

          But my original post from this morning stands. I hope all the neanderthals on this website that piss and moan about this Habs player or that needing to beat up Player X for some perceived slight remember their reactions to White doing just that.

          I am 100% against fighting in hockey. It is unbelievably stupid. White was a moron last night and it cost the team a power play goal.

          I also hope that people that have a tendency to wave the Habs flag and tell everybody to get behind their players remember this incident in the future when they feel the inclination to blather about how others need to be good fans. 🙂

          • Habsrule1 says:

            Sorry…thought you knew. My bad.
            I am ok with having a tough guy on the team and ok with fighting in the proper place. There is a huge difference between wanting a fighter on the team and wanting White to do what he did. This is why being a fighter is not easy. You have to pick the proper times to fight. What White did was not what a fighter should do. That’s something he will learn, hopefully fast.
            And again, I’m a White fan. Saying he made a mistake that cost the Habs the game does not change that.

            Go Habs Go!!

            “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

          • frontenac1 says:

            I love fighting in hockey and I’m glad its on the upswing this season.
            Just have to take your opponent off too. White lost it and was Stupid and he knows it.

          • Old Bald Bird says:

            I figure all fighting does in hurt the hand.

        • boing007 says:

          Sure, but he’s a repeat offender. That does not augur well the next time he will be inserted into the lineup.

          Richard R
          Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

  28. TMan1969 says:

    a) White made a bad decision – cost the team a goal
    b) a interference call was missed cost the team a win – but conversely, a phantom interference call (Ottawa) was a win (Karma?)

    I wasn’t broken about the loss – they will get over it and beat Toronto on Saturday. Mtl has a good team, decent balance only some parts aren’t firing on all cylinders. Trade away a weak link and then it comes back on you like a roaring tiger…and then we would all say…why did we ever trade that player…brings to mind Borque (not so hot last season), Cole (great year, slow start this one)…DD small but tenacious…Montreal has become hard to play against, they are scoring more goals 5 on 5, the PP is clicking and so is the PK..some tweaks will be made…and the wins will come..

    Budaj wouldn’t object to a better BU goalie…

    Do not scorn a weak cub. He may become the brutal tiger.

    Mongolian Proverb

    • B says:

      If Silfverberg din’t get called for goaltender interference, then the Sens would have tied the game. That doesn’t mean that the Habs would have lost the game though, only that it would have become tied at that point. Montreal may have still won the game even if that goal was not called back.

      –Go Habs Go!–

  29. HardHabits says:

    The answer to today’s troubles: Put White on the top line with Cole and Pacioretty. Kill two birds with one stone.

  30. Danno says:

    I am finding the officiating is suspect. There are questionable calls that alter the outcome of way too many games. Goalie interference should be consistently called but it is a pick and chose situation depending on the ref. Quick whistles or no whistles are also tilting the game.


    “Hey Richard, two minutes for looking so good!”

  31. scuba says:

    Forget about the loss for now and enjoy some junior hockey tonight. Two of the top three draft picks in the next draft are going tonight. In my opinion, the two best teams in the Q play tonight on Sporstnet when Halifax plays Moncton.

    I can’t tell if the Habs are great or terrible because sometimes they win and sometimes they lose.

  32. Chris says:

    Hockey is a game of mistakes. Lots of them were made last night…

    Grigorenko hounds Desharnais into a defensive zone turnover. Subban watches Ott skate right by him and get wide open in front of the net. Ott gets off a quick shot that Budaj probably should have had. Mistakes by Desharnais, Subban and Budaj result in a quick “push-back” goal by the Sabres.

    Following another Montreal goal, Foligno chips a puck by Alexei Emelin, who makes an absolutely terrible pinch at the line. Ennis blows by Cole and gets a partial breakaway, shooting before Markov can get across. Unlike most, I don’t think Budaj was to blame for that goal…I’ve seen that one scored on just about every goalie in the NHL.

    On the power play goal by Vanek, Eller probably should have rotated down, as he was going to be too late to stop the point shot and Vanek was his man. Gorges tried to block the shot and missed, and was consequently badly out of position when Ennis got the rebound. Gorges was able to disrupt the shot, but he was now on the ice and could do nothing as Vanek came in to get the rebound. Gorges probably should have recognized his peril with two Sabres off to the side, but the blame for that one is on White for putting the team in that situation.

    And then there is the tying goal, where the blame goes to Tim Peel for making a terrible call. But Montreal dodged a bullet against Ottawa, so this is basically a make-up call for that.

    And I liked Daniel Alfredsson’s take on that non-call, perhaps good advice for Habs fans after losses:

    “We thought we had tied the game and they waived it off. We didn’t think it should have been waived off but that’s the way it goes. We still had some good chances after that. It wasn’t to be.”

    Montreal had a power play after the White brain fart and could have put the game out of reach. Instead, they had a completely uneventful PP, not even managing a shot on net (Subban missed and Diaz and Pacioretty each had an attempt blocked).

    It wasn’t to be. 🙂

    • The Jackal says:

      I don’t think so man, it was to be, but it didn’t be. 😉

      We had the game in the bag, then the stupid penalties ensue, and the Sabres tie it up, it’s that simple. The Habs were the fatigued team in the third and they were up, then they get a downer like that and Buff is back in. Not to mention the tying goal should not have counted. It was just bad luck, but it is a game that SHOULD have been.

    • commandant says:

      When a player makes a mistake, and has done so twice already this season. And this player is disciplined for his mistake, understands it, says all the right things about playing smarter and understanding the need not to make that mistake again and then comes back and in his first game back makes the same mistake once again. I find it very easy to be especially hard on that player.

      Add to it that its not something like, missing the net… or making a bad pass… or something with execution. However instead its the mental mistake of being undisciplined at the exact wrong time of the game, and it becomes 100% UNACCEPTABLE.

      There are mistakes that happen in hockey, to every game and every team and they are learning experiences, and forgiveable issues. Then there are mental mistakes, mistakes involving discipline, where the player really should know better. And those are not corrected. And these are not near as easy to brush under the rug.

      Go Habs Go!
      Check out Top Shelf Prospects, my Team by Team prospect reports

      • Chris says:

        Desharnais has taken at least three penalties on power plays. That is a pretty glaring mistake, as they are usually in the offensive zone or neutral zone. Worst play in hockey, always unacceptable.

        Plekanec has abandoned his man on defensive coverage, resulting in at least 3 goals in the past week. Hard to get on Plekanec, as he has been the team’s best player. But a couple of them were inexcusably weak for a player of his reputation and seniority.

        It happens. I’m not absolving White of blame…he will sit and probably should. The fan and media reaction has been pretty grossly exaggerated, however.

        • jedimyrmidon says:

          It’s all about leverage. Unfortunately for White, the nature of his mistakes and the result of his undisciplined play is plain for all to see, and he doesn’t contribute to the level Plekanec does, which would absolve him of some of the blame.

      • Timo says:

        White had nothing to do with the other 3 goals. Who are we scapegoating for those?

    • Habilis says:

      After watching the game and the condensed replay, I respectfully disagree. The White penalty completely changed the flow of the game. The Habs were cruising before that, scrambling after it.

      Without it, they win going away, IMHO.

      • Chris says:

        I never felt comfortable with last night’s lead. This team has had far too many of these brain farts to be cruising.

        The old “worse lead in hockey” comes up here. Montreal was playing with fire cruising with a two goal lead. They should have floored it after Plekanec put them up 4-2, but they went into a pretty sloppy back and forth style of hockey for 6 minutes before Whitegate.

        • The Jackal says:

          Well, if they were cruising and playing with fire with an uncomfortable lead, probably the worst thing to do then would be to take a stupid penalty.

          • Chris says:

            Agreed. But if it wasn’t White, somebody else probably would have taken one. They took 5 straight of the undeniably stupid variety in the second period. Thankfully for the culprits, the team bailed them out.

            Montreal has a penalty problem. They like to take stupid ones.

  33. Habsssssssswin says:

    I don’t know … Kessel is on a scoring streak, and the make me Laffs are undefeated in february. … AND .. most importantly…
    We never, ever seem to be ready for them ……

  34. frontenac1 says:

    B@chris. Budaj?Really? He faced over 40 shots ,got mugged regularly in his own paint! Miller faced 30shots and had a clear crease and it still went to shoot out. The big problem was the same as last year.Inability of soft D to cream and clear forwards from the crease. Deja vu all over again.

    • Chris says:

      I’m not blaming Budaj. I’m pointing out the craziness of absolving one player of blame while levelling it at another.

      It WAS a team loss. Budaj played decently. He did not inspire a great deal of confidence at times, as he was kicking out MASSIVE rebounds that put his defencemen in bad situations.

      But he made the stops he needed to make for the most part.

      No team can clear forwards out from in front of the net when they turtle. Los Angeles, a defensive team with big defencemen, gave up a late goal to the Oilers earlier (the infamous Yakupov slide followed) because they were digging at the puck in their panic to get to the final buzzer.

      You can’t bulldoze players at the expense of the puck. If they don’t have it, it is interference. If they do have it and you’re trying to shove them, they get a whack at it and the goal ensues.

      I would argue Montreal’s issue is that some of their players try to block too many shots and therefore don’t maintain good defensive positioning. They need to trust their goalies to make the saves and make sure they have the opponents near the net tied up, as these are the guys that usually score off the ensuing rebounds.

    • boing007 says:

      You said it Yogi.

      Richard R
      Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

  35. Habilis says:

    I feel like Saturday is now a must win for the Habs if they are going to challenge for a playoff spot this season. I know how ridiculous that sounds, but at the same time I think a loss to the Leafs would turn this last stretch into a real concern rather than a blip. In a short season like this, blips are fine but losing streaks are not.

    I know how early it is in the season, but I also know that there’s only 39 games to go.


    • veryhabby says:

      Agree. I a shortened season there are 2 things to avoid. Long term injuries to too many key players…and a losing streak. I think 3 losses in a row would be the most a team can handle if they want to stay in the playoff picture. And that’s assuming they don’t just then win 1 and lose 3 again! The only reason I wouldn’t call it a MUST WIN at this point is cause many teams are very close in the standings. At .500 and you are still in a playoff spot. But if this is the silimar standings at the midway point, and then you lose 3 or more in a row, it probably is the write-off of the playoff for any team.

  36. Habsssssssswin says:

    Picture of Tim Thomas in net for the Isles ………

  37. stevieray says:

    Been reading over the course of the day all the posts regarding White and what occured last nite . granted he made a bonehead mistake taking the double penalty but maybe Ruff is the guy who is the genius here. Do you suppose when he say White on the ice ..he started licking his chops !!…and mentioned to Ott to stir things up a bit ? …Ruff is a cagey experienced coach capable of this kind of stuff . Ruff 1 – MT 0 ….

  38. The Juice says:

    If the Habs miss the playoffs by a point they have bigger problems than what White did in this game…give it a rest. Over the course of a season, there will be games the team loses but should have won and games they win but should have lost. 6-3-1 is a pretty darn good record and there is no reason they can’t make it 7-3-1 against a weak Toronto team on Saturday. Half of the people who post on here are hypochondriacs who think there is a serious malady on the team that must be cured ASAP after every loss. Its a 48 game season…lets all try and stay positive, yes?


    “To you from failing hands we throw the torch, be yours to hold it high!”

  39. FlyAngler says:

    Kerry Fraser just got crossed off of Tim Peel’s Christmas card list. Fraser’s ruling- the Buffalo goal should have been disallowed by the on-ice officials because of goaltender interference. See the latest edition of C’mon Ref on TSN.ca

  40. Habsssssssswin says:

    White is a standup guy, who is both appreciated and respected by his teammates. He made a couple of mistakes, which Therrien will rip a strip for. He, however is the grit this team is sadly missing.
    Boston pushed and shoved Desharnais,Gionta and Gallagher the other night like they were bothersome gnats. Where were Patch,Coley and Eller?? ..Borques got balls, Prust has and so does White and Moen. After that, well we’re pretty small. In stature and in backbone I’m afraid… !!! just saying what’s been said before.
    I know !!!

    • H.Upmann says:

      I saw more of DD on his knees than actually on his feet during that Boston game. Man, I just want spring to come and a real big offensive 1st line centre playing on our team… I like DD, but I think he’s an AHLer or 4th liner with some skills.. his size really is a handicap.

  41. 69HABS says:

    Only in Montreal that you are good as your last game.

    Therien screwed up three time so far. Playing Boodaj twice & not have his best defensive players on the ice during the last 23 seconds.

    • Habsrule1 says:

      This loss is not even closely related to Budaj, sorry.
      Every coach makes mistakes and I would not have played Budaj, but that had no bearing on the game.

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

    • Habilis says:

      You’re kidding, right? Do you know that there isn’t one goalie in the league who will play 48 games this season? Why would you expect Price to do so?

      Budaj wasn’t amazing, but he was good enough. Without White’s brain fart, the Habs win that game.

  42. HabFanSince72 says:

    What’s the betting that Senator Patrick Brazeau is a Bruins fan?

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

  43. AllHailTheFlower says:

    I’d just like to say that I’ve been to Buffalo and it does not, I repeat NOT, smell like Cheerios.

  44. jedimyrmidon says:

    Even though White obviously had a big role in the loss, can people stop blaming Budaj for this http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=415537, acting like Ott wasn’t in the middle of the crease pushing Budaj back with his leg.

  45. Phil C says:

    Thinking about going to the game tomorrow night. Does anyone have any experience with Ticket Vault on the Hab website? I am wondering if I wait until tomorrow if there will be be more tickets available, or if I should just take what I can get now. Any help appreciated.

  46. HabsFan1111 says:

    I’m sorry, but I have to say it seems (big surprise) this White penalty is being blown WAY out of proportion. Yes, he screwed up and took a stupid penalty, but we were still up 4-3 when he got out of the box. Yes, White was spoken to about this specifically proabably right before the game, but, again, we were still up 4-3 when he got out. People (yes, including you Boone) are acting like White shot it into his own net with 2 seconds left! This was not a “Steve Bernier game 7 of 2012 finals” kind of game changing penalty. WE WERE STILL UP 4-3 WHEN HE GOT OUT OF THE BOX. Yes, it was dumb, but come on people, what’s next, maybe goat chants next home game?!?

    If we had won the skills competition, no one would even be talking about this…. IMHO

    • K-hab25 says:

      If he never gets the penalty, we’re up 4-3 after Buf scored with less than 2 seconds to go.

      • Chris says:

        You are positive of this? Buffalo couldn’t just waltz up and score because of a brain cramp from Montreal?

        This is a what if? scenario. We can’t possibly know one way or the other how the next 10 minutes would go. Montreal had demonstrated a vulnerability to weird counter-attack goals against the flow of the play.

    • Habsrule1 says:

      Without those penalties, there is no question in my mind the Habs win the game.
      That really says it all. Maybe they should have won anyway, but the penalties were the biggest reason they didn’t.
      That said, I like White, but he has to smarten up.

      Go Habs Go!!

      “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

  47. HabinBurlington says:

    “Confidence is contagious; so is lack of confidence”

    “When you’ve got the momentum in a football game… that is a time to keep going and get it into the end zone, … We want to score for America’s families.”

    Two quotes from the great Vince Lombardi. Seems to me as soon as White took that penalty, Buffalo seized the opportunity to grab momentum, and at the same time the Habs lack of confidence became contagious.

    No Excuses, it is up to the team to stop the other teams momentum. Currently or at least last night, our squad was not good enough to do so.

    Hopefully we improve on this, coaches and players alike.

    • FlyAngler says:

      Great quotes, Hab, but Lombardi’s point was that you keep the momentum and not recklessly give it away which is what White and the Habs did last night. That idiotic penalty gave the Sabres the momentum and brought them back from the grave when they were dead. The Habs should have put another nail in their coffin instead of raising them from death like Lazarus.

    • Chris says:

      THREE shots in 12 minutes.

      Boy, did the Sabres ever seize the momentum from the idiotic penalty and the ensuing power play goal.

      Montreal had a chance to close out the game. Like you said, they failed. It isn’t the first time this season that they’ve struggled in this regard, and it was a recurring theme last season.

      Instead of all the chatter about White doing exactly what half the people crucifying him for today were begging guys like White, Laraque, Blunden, etc. to do for the past 5 years, why don’t we actually focus on the themes that are developing for this team?

      1) The team is just terrible on faceoffs, forcing them to dramatically over-rely on Tomas Plekanec.

      2) The team turtles whenever an opponent gets in their zone in the final minute of a tight game. Admit it…many of us KNEW a goal was coming, watching the Habs easily concede the blue line and then collapse down into the crease allowing the Sabres to just jam away with impunity because the ref wasn’t going to blow it dead with that many bodies in tight.

      3) They can’t put teams away. They had a minute of empty net staring at them and couldn’t pot one, as is so often the case with Montreal. I can’t think of a team that has struggled to score an empty net goal more than the Montreal Canadiens over the past 2-3 seasons. It is insane.

      4) They gave up two goals on shifts immediately after scoring last night (both times the Desharnais line). In the 5-1 loss to the Senators, the Habs gave up their lead just 2:22 after scoring. In the 4-3 OT win against Winnipeg, they took a 2-0 lead only to see Winnipeg score just 1:48 later. That’s a trend that needs to be turned around, because it just sucks the energy out of the building.

      • ooder says:

        the faceoffs drive me absolutely mad! it seems that every single important defensive zone faceoff is lost by the habs. We don’t have a single reliable faceoff guy (i.e. bergeron, toews.. not talking about them as players but just their faceoff abilities).
        Allowin a goal right after you just scored is also awful. Also I think Subban needs way more ice time. This kid is a pure athlete and is very strong to boot. He can skate the puck, pass the puck, flip the puck and he can do that while taking a hit. He can also move people as well. IMO he should of been on the ice for the last minute.
        As for ryan white, complete moron. That is not toughness, that is him being an idiot and not understanding the flow of the game whatsoever.
        IMO Budaj needs more games, because this will keep happening due to him playing less then 20 games in a 2 year span

        • Chris says:

          I’m not sure how much more they should play Subban. He played 21:03 last night. I’d like to see him around 22-23 minutes, but not much higher. I think they burn out these guys when they get up into 24-26 minutes per game, and also “chill” their other defencemen who end up sitting two much.

          • jedimyrmidon says:

            I think Subban should start playing more than Markov who is slower and probably needs to be managed more carefully in this shortened season. But then that would upset the hierarchy.

      • mrhabby says:

        6-3-1 is the current record..not to be shabby chris.

  48. habsfan0 says:

    Seeing that the Laffs are playing the Habs tomorrow, I thought I’d post Brian Burke’s final news conference,in case anybody missed it. Very telling.


  49. HabinBurlington says:

    So last night I watched the game with a bunch of buddies, 2 were Sabres fans, 6 were leaf fans and 1 guy who claims to be a Habs fan, but cheers for Toronto (except against Habs…I think).

    FOr most of the evening Habs and Jets were tied or winning, everything was going great…… Man that ending sucked in both games.

    Must win tomorrow night, I will put myself into the eye of the storm again tomorrow, gonna break out my new Mr. Beliveau jersey for the game, I gotta feeling!

    Happy Snow Day to all those in Southern Ontario!

  50. HABZ24 says:

    Dear mr bergeven, i live a clik from the dorval train station.i would only be too happy as a die hard habs fan to spend gas money out of my own pocket to go pick up mr.white and personally drive his undissaplined azz to the train station and put him on the rails back to hamilton,so he can think seriously about his 3 rd offence that now cost our team a win.


  51. Phil C says:

    The Therrien rant is often given as an example of why he is such a bad coach. I think it was the turning point for one of the most impressive turn-arounds in NHL history. A turn-around only possible with very strong leadership.

    First of all, it happened right after he took over the team in January 2006, 10 games in. Pittsburgh responded well at first to a new coach, but then the team went back to its old habits and the new message was not getting through.

    A lot of people imply it was an anger-fuelled rant, that he lost his cool. But as this Canadian Press article states, the decision to call out the team publicly was made as an organization. It was premeditated. If you watch his demeanor, it is deliberate, not angry or frustrated. He wasn’t even answering the questions, he had a message to deliver.

    Not only did the Pittsburgh organization not mind him calling out the team publicly, they endorsed it. They may have hired him because of his willingness to be honest and straight forward. Why? Because he pulled the exact same stunt in Wilkes-Barre one year prior and it helped turn that team around. Pittsburgh knew *exactly* what they were getting in Therrien. If you listen to the rant, one of the reasons it is powerful is because his description of the team was dead-eye accurate. Truth can be powerful.

    What happened next is also telling. Pittsburgh were a last place team when Therrien took over. He made his famous rant in January of 2006, 10 games in as coach. The next year the Penguins made one of the biggest single season improvements in NHL history, going from 58 points to 105 points in one season. Two years later the Penguins made it within two wins of a Stanley Cup with Therrien as coach, losing to Detroit in 6 games.

    The next season Therrien was fired and Bylsma coached the team to a Stanley Cup win. I don’t think that would have been possible without Therrien laying the foundation for a winning culture.

    I think “the rant” was the turning point for that organization. There is certainly no evidence that it hurt the team. Sometimes when a culture is broken in an organization, drastic measures are required. Some people are offended by such tactics. I think if the situation calls for it, anything that works should be considered. If it results in a parade down St. Catherines, I say rant away.

    Last night White made an error that was plainly obvious to everyone watching. So when Therrien acknowledges the mistake publicly, he is not exactly “calling him out”. Therrien was not going to sugarcoat it, and he held himself equally accountable. I hope he does not do it after every loss, but it has it’s place.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Thanks Phil, good post.

    • K-hab25 says:


    • FlyAngler says:

      Agreed Phil. It’s all about the end state! (Drinking champagne in June)!

    • bwoar says:

      Great post Phil, and I think that on the topic of public accountability, he admitted that White in for Moen was “not his best decision” – the coach admitted his own mistake. That’s the very spirit of the thing.


    • Chris says:

      The Penguins responded to that rant by losing 7 straight games. On the season, the Penguins finished 14-29-8 under Therrien, including 11-14-5 post-rant.

      The following season, the miraculous turnaround, coincided with the arrival of Evgeni Malkin. I’ll tell you what…if you can find another All-World player that isn’t currently in the NHL and add him to the Habs roster, I will concede that Therrien is a genius. If you can add another top-5 draft pick (Jordan Staal) at the same time, that would be great too!

      • jedimyrmidon says:

        Truth can hurt in the short term, but upon further reflection, can be very beneficial on the long run.

      • Phil C says:

        There is no doubt that there was more to the turn around than the rant. A winning formula requires many ingredients, including talent. And good coach can only take a team so far. But if the culture is broken, I don’t care who you have on the roster, it’s not going to work. Therrien at least deserves credit for creating an environment that allowed the team to start winning.

      • The Jackal says:

        Yeah, they had a bad season post-rant too, but it still signifies the start of accountability and a changing of the culture. And sure, Malkin “arrived” that season, but he was brought up under MT, who had a successful run with the Penguins.

    • Hobie Hansen says:

      Great post. I agree 100%.

  52. rhino514 says:

    Hopefully you guys are right about Cole. He looks like a proud guy so i´m hoping he can squeeze one more good year out of himself, for the sake of the team.
    But I think there´s a very real chance molson will regret that contract next year, and in the fourth year Cole will be 37 before the season is out if i´m not mistaken; that´s downright scary.

  53. B says:

    So, before the season started, how many thought that after 10 games the Habs would be tied for 8th place overall in the league (point%) with only 3 eastern conf teams doing better? How many would have thought they’d be more than happy with that kind of a start to the season? Anyone happy about it now?

    Speaking for myself, I am happy to see them sitting this high after 10 game, it is more than I expected. Of course there is room for improvement (there always is), but none the less, the overall results for the team after 10 games are very good.

    –Go Habs Go!–

    • Ghosts of the Forum says:

      Optimism will not be tolerated here!! Unless we win on Saturday. Then plan the parade. Unless we lose on Tuesday. Then trade everyone.

    • Chris says:

      Same here.

      I still don’t expect that they will make the playoffs. I think there are too many wild-cards at play and just not quite enough scoring prowess in the line-up.

      I came into the season hoping for another high draft pick. They had a nice flurry to open the season, but I still suspect they will be in the lottery, and the higher the better. 🙂

  54. K-hab25 says:

    Three years ago the Habs made it to the ECF as a team, Halak was the biggest part of that feat, but it still was a team effort. Last night the Habs lost as a team, White was the biggest part of the loss, but they lost as a team.

  55. junyab says:

    Right…no other Hab has or will make a mistake that costs a goal for the rest of the year. So it will inevitably be White’s fault if we miss out of the playoffs by one point. What a terrible article.

  56. HabFanSince72 says:

    Here’s what Therrien said (paraphrased):

    “You all saw what happened. This is the 3rd time he does this. The first time I talked to him. The second time he was benched. If he doesn’t get it this time he never will.”

    No throwing under the bus.

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

    • jedimyrmidon says:

      Exactly. A progression. Clear timeline.

    • HabinBurlington says:

      Agree, White is a big boy and can take his lumps.

    • K-hab25 says:

      I agree completely with Therrien, three strikes and your out.

      • HabinBurlington says:

        I wouldn’t give up on White yet, but he has to now show he is learning from it. I still like what he can bring, and in the big picture this team isn’t winning a cup this year. I am hopeful he will indeed learn. The team also needs to get better on the PK, Carey Price helps it alot, but the team needs to improve and it will over time.

        • K-hab25 says:

          I think White has some nice skills, but the 4th liner is one of the more easier guys to replace. If he’s continuing to cost his teams games with his undisciplined play, then he’s gotta go. I’d put Prust there to center the 4th line and move Eller with the kids.

    • habstrinifan says:

      You did not post the entire remarks of Therrien. You have 100% right to say that Therrien did not throw White under the bus.. just as I have the right to be of the opinion that he did… although I have never used that phrase which I dont like.

      But when you are offereing proof to, you have to give the full picture. You should have included his remarks which start with “Unacceptable… and ends with “cost the team the game” for a truer judgement to be made.

  57. Say Ash says:

    Okay: Budaj, Auld, Huet or the guy in your beer league?

  58. jedimyrmidon says:

    On a more positive note, I loved Gally’s goal from Prust. And even though Galchenyuk wasn’t in on that play, where was he? Cutting across the crease right in front of Miller. He may have even screened him a bit.

  59. coolozza says:

    When is HIO gonna stop giving PJ the cheap shots…sad.

    Any chance Blunden gets a shot soon? Thought he had a good camp, and now with White blowing his chance again…

  60. Ghosts of the Forum says:

    Here’s my take on White…what is it that he brings that Blunden doesn’t? I’m not being facetious here, genuinely wondering. Blunden is big, fast and can scrap. Why not give him a shot?

    • 24 Cups says:

      We need a 4th line centre. Muckers like Armstrong, Moen and Blunden can’t play centre. White is there by default. The team had the same problem last year. Noke is on the injury list but he’s no barn burner.

      • HabFanSince72 says:

        I wonder if maybe Leblanc should get a call.

        Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

        • Ghosts of the Forum says:

          Not a bad idea…but is it going to help him to be on the fourth line?

          I say put Prust at centre, Moen and Blunden (for now) on the wing. Move Eller with the kids

      • B says:

        I believe that White and Nokelainen are the only right handed centers on the team.

        –Go Habs Go!–

      • neumann103 says:

        Prust can play Center. He was a Center in Junior and has played some at the pro level. I like Prust on the third line (and believe Bergevin and Therrien brought him in to play third line) but Eller needs a spot.

        Blunden is not really a fighter but he is big, fast and does hit

        You could do a lot worse than

        Bourque Plekanec Gionta
        Pacioretty Desharnais Cole
        Galchenyuk Eller Gallagher
        Moen Prust Blunden

        “Et le but!”

    • Cal says:

      Blunden can’t fight. He gets his ass handed to him every time.


    • Phil C says:

      Blunden is not a centre, and I would not consider him a scrapper with only one fight last year. he seemed to avoid that kind of stuff to me. But I don’t mind him getting a shot.

    • powdered toastmann says:

      Not much to choose between them. Both can skate…Blunden is bigger.

      Not that White will scare anyone, and he’s not that big, but compared to Blunder, he can scrap…Blunden?…not so much.

  61. Propwash says:

    The guys on tsn 690 raised a good point. Why no time out to get fresh legs on the ice, especially on defense?


  62. Steeltown Hab says:

    Why do MTL always have the strangest shootout selections?

    IMO you go purely by skill.

    Galchenyuk, Eller, DD, Subban (was lights out in the AHL for shootouts), Gallagher, Markov, Gionta, Diaz.

    Bourque? Cmon Man!


    Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Pac, Emelin – @J_Perez22

  63. habatab says:

    Please tell this coach?? We NEED a Face off Man!! Gionta and Cole need to pick up there Game!! We dont need another gomezzzsss?

  64. Mattyleg says:

    Tee hee!!
    I love this thread.
    So much silliness.

    So Ryan White does something dumb that essentially costs the team a win, and the media asks about Ryan White’s actions, and the coach is supposed to say what, exactly?

    “Oh, it was a team loss. We didn’t play hard enough at the end when we were one goal down and the Sabres had the momentum.”


    You think that Therrien is using the media to send a message to White? You think he’s not going to tear a strip off him one-on-one?

    If he’d not acknowledged White’s screw-up, he’d lose all credibility.

    —Hope Springs Eternal—

    • Steeltown Hab says:

      Bonehead move by White. I feel for the guy still for whatever reason. Regardless the refs did blow this one, on the no whistle when Budaj covered the puck + botching the goaltender interference.


      Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Pac, Emelin – @J_Perez22

    • Timo says:

      Yes, Therrien’s credibility… the most precious thing Habs have as a team.

    • Chris says:

      Sure, but acknowledge that the screw-up had nothing to do with the end result.

      In the roughly 12 minutes after the power play goal, the Sabres managed 3 shots.

      It was only the final flurry, after a completely dominant shift by Gionta, Plekanec and Bourque, that the Sabres got the tying goal. And in the meantime, the Habs had a completely ineffective power play (which was probably a far bigger culprit in generating momentum for the Sabres) and couldn’t get clear to score on an open net, a common occurrence for this team at the end of games.

      • Habsrule1 says:

        Nothing to do with the loss?
        I’m still laughing.
        Sorry Chris, but that’s funny right there.

        Go Habs Go!!

        “Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them.” – Sam Pollock

        • Chris says:

          Laugh away.

          The Habs had 12 minutes to not play stupid hockey. And they did for the most part.

          And then they played stupid.

          Was Ryan White also responsible for what happened in Boston? Was Ryan White on the ice when the Habs gave up quick goals on the first shift after scoring on two separate occasions last night?

          Blaming White is just lazy. Not entirely surprising, but lazy nonetheless.

          • Old Bald Bird says:

            Can we agree that White’s move was the beginning of the stupidity?

          • habbss says:

            why is everyone blaming white ? i blame the coach for starting are backup and cost us the game. this is stupidity at its finest if price is not tired after 8 games . price should start every game till there is some distance from ninth place. have him not take morning skate and miss a practice if playing buda continues then kiss the playoffs goodbye. stupid is what stupid does

          • Chris says:

            No. White’s move was one stupid act.

            But I think the beginning of the stupidity were the brutal decisions made that cost two goals in the second period. After that, I definitely had no confidence (as is usually the case, with the exception of the 6-1 win over Buffalo) that the Habs were in control. They make every team feel like they still have a chance!

    • HabinBurlington says:

      I would say this thread has Big Mo (momentum) on its side! 🙂

    • nek25plus says:

      Only with you Mattyleg, only with you…

    • Old Bald Bird says:

      Zackly. Do we want a coach to hide behind weak platitudes? He called a spade a spade — no doubt in answer to questions and not from a prepared text.

  65. munch17 says:

    I think it has become clear that our so-called #1 line from last year is no longer effective.
    I think the main reason is that Cole is not carrying the puck deep like he was last year.
    DD is unable to bring the puck into offensive zone – too slow and weak. Also very weak in our zone – not much comment about he coughed up the puck leading to Sabres first goal.
    Eller is doing everything that DD is not. He moves the puck , is involved physically and is being rewarded with more ice time. Now it is time to reward him with effective line mates – Patches for one and I hope a more effective Cole.

    • Timo says:

      I think it’s because now teams took note of that line and man.. they are easy to shut down as there is zero physical presence on that line.

      • Steeltown Hab says:

        They have our two biggest wingers? Not a lack of physical presence. Just bad play and as mentioned above, DD can’t handle the defensive load that comes along with logging those types of minutes. If they’re not producing or sustaining pressure the team is really vulnerable in there own end.


        Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Pac, Emelin – @J_Perez22

  66. K-hab25 says:

    Everyone complaining about the “top line” realises that they scored the 2 goals in our last win against OTT, not even a week ago right. Pacioretty got an assist on DD’s goal and Cole scored the winner on a backhand in front of the net. Only here would people be sticking up for White, while screaming to split up the “top line.”

    • Steeltown Hab says:


      They had 1 good game all year (against ottawa), Cole’s goal was on the PP and can be heavily attributed to Franky Bouillons beauty set up. As a line they’ve haven’t shown any flashes of last year and have been one of the weaker PP units as well.


      Lars, PK, Galchenyuk, Pac, Emelin – @J_Perez22

      • K-hab25 says:

        I actually like those lines, I disagree that they’ve had only one good game. They haven’t been as strong as last year, but not nearly as bad as some are suggesting.

  67. Hoegaarden says:

    The tying goal last night was clearly a make up call for the Ottawa screwup made against the Sens.

    69.3 Contact Inside the Goal Crease – If an attacking player initiates contact with a goalkeeper, incidental or otherwise, while the goalkeeper is in his goal crease, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed.
    If a goalkeeper, in the act of establishing his position within his goal crease, initiates contact with an attacking player who is in the goal crease, and this results in an impairment of the goalkeeper’s ability to defend his goal, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed.
    If, after any contact by a goalkeeper who is attempting to establish position in his goal crease, the attacking player does not immediately vacate his current position in the goal crease (i.e. give ground to the goalkeeper), and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed. In all such cases, whether or not a goal is scored, the attacking player will receive a minor penalty for goalkeeper interference.
    If an attacking player establishes a significant position within the goal crease, so as to obstruct the goalkeeper’s vision and impair his ability to defend his goal, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed.
    For this purpose, a player “establishes a significant position within the crease” when, in the Referee’s judgment, his body, or a substantial portion thereof, is within the goal crease for more than an instantaneous period of time.

  68. MacHabFan says:


    We have a much better team this year – capable of competing every night.

    And we have some kinks to work out, including becoming accustomed to a new system and coaching staff.

    In recent games some mistakes were made by the D-Men and Forwards. Lets stay calm and carry on!

    However, I believe this new configuration has no place for White’s antics (I have always struggled with why he is in the NHL). He has not got the message, either he is not listening or thinking, either way send him packing! Continue to add more skilled physical players.

    No excuses.

  69. WindsorHab-10 says:

    Relax everyone, yes I’m just as upset at losing as anyone but I’m hopeful that this team will learn from blowing back to back 3rd period leads. Last night’s loss was a bitter pill to swallow for fans & players on this team. I also think Price should’ve played but I thought Budaj was very good in net. Don’t know how many more chances Therien will give White. He definitely cost us 2 losses with his selfish play.

    • VerdunHab says:

      I’ll be able to relax at approx. 9:45 pm tomorrow night after a shallacking of the Leafs…until then I’ll still be upset about how things transpired last night.

  70. shiram says:

    LOSING STREAK!! Panic time people, HH rev up the tank! Sell the vets for picks! Play the kids 23 minutes/game! Whee!!
    Or you know, we could just appreciate the Habs good start and realize this team still has some issues to fix, but they can compete for a playoff spot while they try to fix those issues.

  71. piper says:

    The team mostly sucked arse last night but Gally’s and PK’s goals were things of beauty.

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